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Posted By Tracey C
Hi All
Nationally we house university students from the age of 18. On all our sites we have locking mechnaisms on the windows that only allow the windows to open on tilt (they all comply with the 10 percent ventalation and light rule). As the weather is getting warmer there have been several complaints as there are every year from the students who think we should take the locks off and allow the windows to be opened fully. I might add that in the past we have had students try to climb out of the windows after they have had a few shandy's at the weekend and one guy ended up in Intensive care.
One of my colleagues attended a seminar recently with a legal team who told him that if we don't remove the restrictors we are failing in our duty of care.
Any thoughts on this would help me greatly.
Thanks
T
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Posted By FJ
I assume that the concern is over fire safety- how will they get out of the rooms if there is a fire?
Its worth double checking as some Enforcing Authorities require you to prevent suicides/accidentally falling out of the window etc by having such hindrances in Homes etc- any colleagues with experience of Hotels out there?
In any case its what YOUR local fire authority say which will matter (and they don't always agree with each other!)
Are the locks/hindrances permanent and un-bypassable?
As I started off by saying- if fire safety is the main consideration, what do you do?
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Posted By Descarte
Could you not always break the glass of a window in an emergency? Obviously not ideal and I agree getting the perspective of your local fire authority and your insurers would be a good start
I think there may also be other issues here as well such as security, if the windows can open fully, people can climb in as well as out.
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Posted By Tracey C
Fire evacuation is not our concern as we have a plan that has been tried and tested. We have had to date 14 fires (all unattended cooking).
The problem we have is ensuring the students don't climb down the outside of the buidling when they are drunk which is very frequently and fall to their death.
We felt that when we risk assessed the building the incidents of students climbing from one window to another was so great we needed to have a control measure, but now some students are complaining that it is too hot in the bedrooms.
T
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Posted By holmezy
Tracey,
I think that so long as the lighting and ventilation reqts are satisfied, fire evacuation is not compromised, and that you can justify the windows being locked to prevent people climbing out then you have met your duty of care!
If you put bars on the windows then you'd get someone complaining about human rights etc....so you probably cant win.
Holmezy
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Posted By Peter Leese
Tell me, you learned people, if a tenant (I'm assuming the students are paying rent) opens a window and falls out, can then the landlord be prosecuted or sued?
And if that is the case, why then do not all tenanted premises (rented properties) have the same restrictions?
And is it reasonable not to be able to open a window properly if air conditioning is not provided?
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Posted By AHS
IMHO keep the restrictors as problems with falls have already occurred in the past therefore a degree of forseability has crept in.
As the Fire assessment has been cleared not many people get prosecuted/sued for insufficient ventilation but a lot do for falls from height.
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Posted By Ian P
Some of our offices have locked grills attached to the outside of windows. The particular areas they are in means they have to be as well protected as possible from forcible entry. I and the FB people I have spoken to after similar complaints from staff about what would happen in the event of fire have no problem with this. These windows are not emergency exits and in reality the grills would be removed in seconds by the FB if they absolutely had to.
As a compromise I have had keys to the grill locks hung from a hook beside the windows in each room, just in case.
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Posted By steve e ashton
This isn't Van Mildert in Durham by any chance?
Those buildings could have been architect designed to encourage us students out onto the facia on the second floor level for a spot of traversing and sheet abseiling. (And easier access after a few shandies than waking the porter when you lost your keys)
Only one fall that I recall.
However. That was then this is now. Keep the locks in place. Ensure the corridors and common areas can be ventilated so open room doors will give some air movement, and don't allow cleaners to close the windows of unoccupied rooms. (Our cleaners always closed our windows to 'save energy'... One guy went to the trouble of removing the glazing to prevent this mindless rule following... He was sent down.)
Can the College be held liable? Almost certainly. This is a known high risk, there is a simple solution, its in place, and now it may be removed... You can't open hotel windows wider than 10cm or so for this very reason.
Steve
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Posted By Tabs
My first H&S job was at a London university, and as I was still looking for a house, I was in residence for a few weeks.
During the summer, the Uni rented the rooms out to visiting foreign student groups.
Imagine my delight to watch a fourteen year old boy climb out of his second floor window, traverse a four-inch Victorian ledge for about 10 metres and back into the building via his friend's window. Several metres below was a typical spear-head railing.
Within three weeks all windows had restrictors on, and returning students were horrified that they could no longer sit on the open ledge drinking and waving to friends.
Some were removed (usually only days before the student was also removed). The restrictors were always replaced.
Please ask your legal team what the infringement is, and how restricting windows is the cause of that infringement. Then apply the same logic to a room without a window.
If temerature is the issue, look at proper ways of controlling it.
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Posted By Tracey C
Many thanks to all of your responses. It does look as though we will have to issue fans or have air conditioning fitted at some of our sites, but i think it is a lot safer than having windows that open fully. A lot of our students are very sensible but we do tend to get the odd idiot.
My collegue dis-agrees with me he feels we have wasted money on fitting the restrictors and cannot see the purpose.
I think i am going to have a battle on my hands as some of the managers of the sites want them removing.
Regards
T
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Tracy
Don't even consider removing the restrictors, they are there for very good reasons ie to stop people falling anything up to 20 floors as can be found in some accomodation blocks. They are an essential safety measure and required under the building regulations for all accomodation of this type of more than 2 storey height.
You do not even need to go down the fan route this is a matter for students themselves. As far as aircon is concerned the reality is that it is pointless if somebody is going to open a window. By all means put it in if you can
a) Fix all windows closed permanently
b) Have the capital to install the equipment and maintain it
c) Can clean the windows as previously designed.
I think the legal eagle is talking from their nether regions as there can be no breach of duty if the specific requirements of building regulations are met with respect to ventilation and window opening. The good news is that the new part L of the BR will mean smaller windows, fixed glazing and trickle vents - no opportunity to climb out then!!
Bob
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