Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Hi,

I take it the carbon type of extinguisher you are talking about are CO2 extinguishers. If so the advise is almost right, you should not use a CO2 type after using a foam type as it blows the foam away and negates its effectiveness. However there is nothing wrong in having both types in the same workplace, indeed it depends on the type of activity that is undertaken. It is not really wise to use a foam extinguisher on an electrical fire as the foam is still water based and any defect with the extinguisher can be lethal. The answer is to train the staff in the corrects use of extinguisher including the size and type of fire that extinguishers are designed to fight.

Posted By Tabs
"negate its effects" ?

Sorry? In what circumstance would you use a CO2 after a foam, unless the foam has not done the job?

If the foam has not done the job, just what is wrong with negating it?

Hmmm... dumb logic to me.

I have used CO2 a few times and if used to smother rather than blow the fire out it shouldn't be a big problem. In an emergency I would say that stopping someone using this mix would be reckless.

Unless you have space and money to allow a stock of 6 of each type of extinguisher, you will not get a perfect mix for all occasions.

Foam and CO2 is a good compromise.

How many fires have you had in that area in the last 10 years, and how many of them took more than one extinguisher?

Perhaps the ultimate compromise is to tell people to use the CO2 before the foam?

(Money making scheme? surely not)

Posted By shaun mckeever
What a load of old tosh!

Of course you can place the two types of extinguishers side by side. They are for different risks.

The rule when tackling a fire with a fire extinguisher is that if you need to use a second extinguisher then you probably shouldn't be there.

Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Quite right Shaun, They are for different applications so it is quite in order to have them at the same location provided there may be a use for each type, no point in having them if there is unlikely to be a need for that specific type. CO2 should be used only where there is an electrical risk. Using a CO2 on an oil fire is very good at putting the fire out, but it goes further than that and in the training I have had over many years not the whole story, dont turn your back on an oil fire it will come back and bite you.

About the fire risk assesment, who did it I would question why they are saying not to mix the two types in one location and also question thier competence? By the way try not to mix up provision of fire extinguishers with fire risk assesment, fire extinguisher are only suitable for small fires and often increase risk during a fire, the fire risk assessment is about people safety and the best action is to evacuate and let the fire service manage the fire.

Posted By Steve Lawrie
Well - how about this for a spanner in the works - we have extingusihers throughout our buildings but our current policy is - do not use the fire extinguishers - leave the building. No one is currently trained in their use so surely by way of risk assessment - we do not need extinguishers !! - Facilities Department trying to save money !

Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Good one when is a fire extinguisher unlikely to be able to cope with a fire. I remember during training being told if its bigger that a medium sized dust bin walk away, one extinguisher won't do the job, even the largest water extinuisher has only 9 liters of water so won't put a bigger fire out.

Quite right staff must be trained in the use of an extinguisher (all types) before being authorised to use one. They are simple to use, sqwert and spray If only it was that simple. The type of fire plays a key part in how you use an extinguisher, e.g. oil don't turn your back on it or it will bite you, it will reignite if not done properly.

But you still need to provide extnguisher in accordance with fire safety legislation and building regulations.

Posted By Ken Taylor
- and as to being in the 'same place', it's usually advisable (and recommended) to site extinguishers together for the area that they are provided to cover so as to form a 'fire point' (usually near the room, compartment, storey, etc exit) - rather than dotting them around in a sort of 'hunt the extinguisher' exercise.

Posted By Ian Goddard Tech IOSH
under The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005: the responsible person in regards to Fire-fighting and fire detection

13. —(1) Where necessary (whether due to the
features of the premises, the activity carried on there,
any hazard present or any other relevant circumstances)
in order to safeguard the safety of relevant persons, the
responsible person must ensure that—
(a) the premises are, to the extent that it is
appropriate, equipped with appropriate firefighting
equipment and with fire detectors and
alarms; and
(b) any non-automatic fire-fighting equipment so
provided is easily accessible, simple to use and
indicated by signs.
(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1) what is
appropriate is to be determined having regard to the
dimensions and use of the premises, the equipment
contained on the premises, the physical and chemical
properties of the substances likely to be present and the
maximum number of persons who may be present at any
one time.
(3) The responsible person must, where necessary—
(a) take measures for fire-fighting in the
premises, adapted to the nature of the activities
carried on there and the size of the undertaking
and of the premises concerned;
(b) nominate competent persons to implement
those measures and ensure that the number of
such persons, their training and the equipment
available to them are adequate, taking into
account the size of, and the specific hazards
involved in, the premises concerned; and
(c) arrange any necessary contacts with external
emergency services, particularly as regards firefighting,
rescue work, first-aid and emergency
medical care.
(4) A person is to be regarded as competent for the
purposes of paragraph (3)(b) where he has sufficient
training and experience or knowledge and other qualities
to enable him properly to implement the measures
referred to in that paragraph.

regards

Ian

Posted By Ken Taylor
Because powder extinguishers are not the best for many types of fire (eg no cooling action and less penetration).

There is a difference between whether an extinguisher can safely be used on a type of fire and whether it is the most suitable.

Posted By Peter Leese
Lukasc - I take it you've never had to clear up when a powder extinguisher has gone off?