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Posted By Debbie S
I am so annoyed - we deliver pallets/IBC's of goods to customers which vary in weight. When I did a manual handling Risk Assessment and Safe Working Procedure for the safe delivery of the products (and taking into account that I do not know what the delivery premises are like) we have advised that consignments weighing more than 750kg should either be stripped to smaller loads and hand balled or in the case of 1,000litre IBC's the drivers should ask for assistance in pulling / pushing.
Anyway this morning we had an IBC weighing 990kg to be delivered - driver got to delivery point and asked for assistance - they refused - driver went away with product still on vehicle. Consignor rings me up to ask why - I explain Manual Handling Regs - Consignor then rings our Customer Services Director and says that unless we can confirm that we will deliver everything, no matter what the weight without having to ask for assistance then he will take his business elsewhere - Customer Services Director then moans at me as its an account then spends over £200,000 per year. I pointed out to her that I do not make the law - I'm the messenger!!
I now feel very angry and annoyed that people will stoop to blackmail to get what they want, even it it means endangering people
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Posted By Darren J Fraser
If the financial director is concerned about the loss of a £200,000 account, maybe it would be a good time to sit them down and explain the cost of losing an employee to an injury and any potential costs associated with any claims or prosecutions, and then see if they are still prepared to moan about an account loss.
Alternatively ask the director concerned to sign a statement that they are prepared to personally accept any and all responsibility in the event of an injury sustained due to MH, see what response you get then.
We can advise, suggest and guide but we cannot force something to happen.
Last resort would be to invite the local enforcing inspector round for a cup of tea and a chat - of course likely to be seeking employment elsewhere afterwards.
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Posted By Ian D.
Hi Debbie
Why not supply the vehicle with a hand pallet truck. We have move 1 tonne IBC's with ease using these types of truck
Regards
Ian
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Posted By Ron Hunter
You mention the Manual Handling (Operations) Regulations Debbie. What does your employer's assessment of this task say? What further control measures have been identified and agreed to reduce or even eliminate this risk?Pallet trucks, vehicle mounted hi-abs etc.are surely viable solutions in the short to medium term.
"Asking for help" doesn't really cut it.
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Posted By Pete48
Debbie, may I suggest you step back a bit from this. You have no right to expect a customer to aid you in your delivery unless they agree to do so or your contract states that the customer is responsible for off loading goods delivered.
The arrangements should be included in your assessment and resources or mechanical assistance provided as determined in the assessment.
If I was your customer I would probably tell you the same thing, I don't want my employees exposed to your risk.
However, if you invited me to be part of your risk assessment then I might be able to find ways to help you. Leaving a driver to seek help when he arrives is not adequate in my view. It might tempt my employees into doing something that I have not risk assessed for a starter.
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Posted By George Richardson
I have some sympathy with the questioner, but your risk assessment should cover this eventuality. If it is forseeable that a single person may need assistance, then it must also be forseeable that such assistance may not be available from time to time.
Your safe system of work should then address this eventuality, using the normal hierarchy of risk control.
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Debbie
Must ask if your people placed the restriction in their standard terms - if they did not do so then you are unfortunately flying parts of your rear anatomy in the wind.
As Ron says you cannot simply assess the assistance of others, particularly if they have not been formally notified of the needs. You have loads up to 1 tonne and therefore need to find the means of handling them.
Sorry to be the messenger
Bob
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Posted By Alan Hewett
Agree with Pete48's comments.
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Posted By David A Cooper
£200,000 sounds like the turnover so the real value of the account ie the profit will be far less. Compare that to a fine. Turnover = Vanity, Cash in the bank = sanity!
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Posted By Debbie S
I would like to point out that 99.9% of the products that we deliver are taken off our vehicles by forklift trucks being operated by the customer accepting the goods - therefore there is never a problem with manual handling. The problem lies with the 0.1% that aren't. We do have manual pump trucks on every vehicle but it does clearly state in the Regs that as a rough guide the amount of force that needs to be applied to move a load over a flat,level surface using a well maintained handling aid is at least 2% of the load weight. Therefore if a pallet weighs 400kg then the force required to move it id 8kg and the force will be larger perhaps if the conditions are not perfect / wheels etc not straight. Yes a pallet truck makes it easier to push/pull but you still need to assess the force required.
I'm stuck unless anyone can give me some positive advise
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Posted By Ken Taylor
How about sending an additional operative to this customer. Probably cheaper than the loss of business or the fine and injury claim!
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Posted By Debbie S
To further update - we did offer this customer the opportunity of taking the product back with 2 drivers (which in this instance is being done on Saturday morning in good faith to our customer and at no extra cost) but have advised that further deliveries to this premises would need 2 people or mechanical asistance - customer is not prepared to pay extra so it has reached a stale mate.
Its very difficult to get all eventualities covered when writing SWP's as we deliver over 500,000 consignemnts a year
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Posted By Pete48
Debbie,
All makes no difference. Either the safe method is as you outline or it isn't. If it is then what choice do you have?
This sort of situation often develops when a risk assessment is applied to tasks after a commercial contract has been agreed.
One view is that the customer is an awkward so and so.
Another view is that your sales people got it wrong when they priced the job because they were unaware of the need for assistance.
Either way your employees should not suffer as a result. The company should take the hit if it is really committed to safety and the sales team should be in there trying to get the customer back on board.
No-one should be saying we will just have to deliver it with one driver.
Better luck next time.
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Posted By Glyn Atkinson
Have a quick think about this - who accepts the delivery - could it be the female admin assistant or the office boy?
Would you expect them to help the driver?
I think not, so you must be prepared to deliver and offload your third party deliveries by a suitably risk assessed safe method by the employee(s)under your control at the third party premises.
Perhaps a mechanical device needs to be added to the delivery lorry, similar to the HIAB cranes fixed to builder's merchants delivery vehicles.
Look at what they can deliver one handed !
Just my own thought from the information given.
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Posted By anon1234
Must admit, I agree with the customer's viewpoint on this. Unless you have formally agreed with them that they provide assistance for the offloading, then I would suggest it is reasonable for them to expect your company to provide this service.
Obviously I don't know all the details but this appears to effectively be abdication of your responsibilities as a supplier.
We had a similar issue on one of our construction projects were a package supplier expected us to provide a crane for offloading and installing their equipment - thye had quated for supply and install!!!
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Posted By AlB
Debbie.
You order a new washing machine for your home. The washing machine is to be delivered to your home. You have to go to work, but your grandfather, who is pushing 89 this autumn will sit in and wait for the delivery.
Delivery arrives. The driver says he can not handle the machine by himself and this employer's risk assessment states that he is not permitted to move it himself. It also states that the customer has to help. As you are not there, it's your grandfather who is the "customer". would he be able to do it? Would he be at risk of heart failure from the effort? Would you be happy if you got home that evening to find that he'd been manhandling goods? I bet NOT!
Don't rely on the customer. It's your delivery. You assess the risk and find sensible solutions. Automatic off load, HIAB, pallet truck etc etc.
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Posted By Mark Mace
Debbie,
I think you stated that this was an IBC delivery, therefore if i am thinking along the right lines the delivery was liquid in form.
Why not use less product or even smaller containers to reduce the weight problem, no assisstance then needed.
Furthermore if your Director is complaining that you have done your job correctly and training has been followed (hence the refusal by your operative to deliver) point out to him/her that you have carried out the task that he emloys you for. Some directors always like to have someone to blame they really do not like accepting that their bad management of whatever resource be it sales force, labour or lack of forsight is the real cause.
regards
Tony
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Posted By Shane J
Debbie,
What were the difficulties encountered that meant the operative had to ask for assistance in the first place?
If these are due to size/weight of product and handling methods then it is your companies responsibility to rectify.
If it was a problem with delivery bay access or something to do with the premises then it is the customers responsibility.
Please note that something about the premises would have had to have been changed by the customer during the contract.
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