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Posted By Gilly
Hi
I am a newly appointed H&S advisor for my local, large church. They have missionaries who they help as a church body to support financially. Lots of the work which the church does is voluntary and hence most volunteers are being counted as employees (in effect) for the purposes of H&S, BUT would missionaries come under the same heading or would they be counted as 'self-employed'? I am trying to work out how on earth we could 'control' any activities or environments if they were counted as volunteers/employees in any case.
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Posted By FJ
I am interested in what response you will get.
My only thoughts are:
If you are determined that all your volunteers are considered to be "employees" for H&S (I read recently as to why this is indeed recommended!)-
1)Doesn't "....So Far as is Reasonably Practicable" come into play?- it certainly would be good practice, if possible, (if they have email access where they are) to email them at least links to relevant guidance (eg from VSO, some Recruitment Agencies) on typical hazards that may be encountered working overseas- this forum is also a good source of advice if THEY ask you questions (and offering them that possibility and asking them what help THEY would like may help them to feel less isolated/more supported).
Also have you made contact with charities such as Christian Aid/Tearfund as they may be able to point you in direction of advice or even talk through issues with you!?
2) Watch your "volunteers" don't get ensnared by the Minimum Wage legislation!
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Posted By Gilly
Thanks for the response PJ. We had decided to class all the volunteers as employees due to the fact that the church only has 3 paid employees, but caters for over 300 people! We can't justify not having a written H&S policy. Each member is asked to 'give of their time/efforts' towards running the church/worship and in trying to update their H&S we are coming across rather a lot of resistance in the form of 'we've been fine for 100 years so why bother now' sort of comments. In the strictest sense though, the church 'undertakings' as a business would fall over without the volunteers/members so we proposed to class them as such You intimated that we were sensible to do so? I think that the missionaries are already supported by other organisations in addition to us, such as their training college, so I am not too worried about them.
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Posted By Gilly
Good point re: minimum wage - I'll check it out!
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
Gilly
You are quite right in that 'volunteers' will be considered as employees under HSWA. The Act does not differentiate between full-time, part-time or even non-paid helpers, or places of work come to that.
I am not sure what role the Missionaries actually do, but if in doubt, count them as employees for health and safety purposes.
No, SFAIRP does not have any bearing on this matter.
Regards
Ray
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Posted By Gilly
Thanks Ray
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze
Are they being sent directly by the Church or a 3rd party Missionary Organisation funded/ supported by the Church?
My experience of this in the UK is that normally they are sent out by 3rd party organisations that have developed a long-standing working relationship with their partners/ benefactors.
Is this the case with you Gilly and would this chain of command make any difference?
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Posted By Gilly
Hi - Hmm - I thought that it was direct but you could be right - I'll check. If there is another supporting organisation, it could well mean that they are not classed as employees. Thanks!
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Posted By Matt Wardman Having been on Church Councils it will turn on whether they are employees or volunteers on projects which are projects of the church itself. I'd suggest it would be very unusual - more likely if you are a independent church. Talk to your regional adviser if you are in a denominational church - there will be some area person who has met the question before. Also the missionary organisation should have looked into it themselves. You might want to check out http://www.churchcare.co.uk/index.htmlThat is a CofE site, but is sponsored by the largest church insurance company - Ecclesiastical. The other resources to talk to could be the ChurchWarden or Full Time Administrator at another similarly or larger sized church, or a Full Time Officer of the MSF Union (they organise among vicars and priests). Matt
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Posted By Matt Wardman
>Watch your "volunteers" don't get ensnared by the Minimum Wage legislation!
That is a very good point. Also the Inland Revenue are targetting "volunteers" in local sports clubs - I have seen reports of village cricket teams being caught for a number of thousands of liability. Note: not Scatty Batty or Whacky Wicky but fairly well-sourced.
Matt
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Posted By Jim Walker
Assuming you do decide to treat them as employees and thus risk assess, can I suggest a item for the risk assessment.
Bathroom light on, running water ergo householder in the shower. Risk Control: come back later, do not knock on the door.
OK sorry! - where's me coat, have gone.
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Posted By Gilly
Thanks for all of the information guys - much appreciated. I think thet we may be OK with the overseas missionaries as the ones abroad are apparently 'organised' by a third party Christian organisation - we just help to finance. Interesting point about minimum wage - I shall have to look it up. The post about the shower - I am perhaps being a bit dense?!!
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze
Gilly
I think he may have had some recent problems with the local church doing "door to door" at an inconvenient time.
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Posted By Andrew Griffiths I am new to the forum but perhaps try the HSE guidance in relation to determining whether someone is employed: http://www.hse.gov.uk/en...tion/status/contract.htmAlso I am aware that guidance was issued some time back concerning H&S in the voluntary sector. I believe that in a lot of cases volunteers in a church are not employees but it could be argued should be protected as non employees (exlcuding workplace regs etc). Not sure if this helps
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Posted By Gilly
Thanks all - I will check the websites. Yes - we are clear on our volunteers - they are def. classed as employees for H&S but I'll have to be careful and ensure that they're not employees for minimum wage. The missionaries I will check again on against the website. Thanks!
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