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#1 Posted : 24 August 2007 11:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian D.
Any safety advisers or farmers out there who can advise.

Recently out walking following a OS map a public footpath went through a farm. The farmer had quite helpfully painted FP signs on the side of his barn to assist in locating the correct path, and I assume stop people wondering into his yard.

However stepping over the stile I saw a yellow sign stating "Beware of the Bull"

My question is if the farmer has recognized the hazard i.e bull and he has erected the sign, is this sufficient control measures (ie just to tell you about the bull) or should he do more like relocate to a field that does not have public access.

Secondary what are the real dangers / risk /stats of Bull in a field (getting away from the cartoon image.
Sorry about the thread, its not a Friday special, even when I am away relaxing I can't turn the H&S off.
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#2 Posted : 24 August 2007 11:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight
Hi Ian,

Bulls do kill people every year, though not as many as horses (and, apparently, donkeys). However, I think the farmer has a right to put his bull in a field with a footpath through it; there's some sort of principle to do with violence being in the animals nature and therefore not entirely the fault of the farmer provided he or she isn't reckless in the way they manage the animal. I think so, anyway,

John
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#3 Posted : 24 August 2007 12:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bruce Sutherland
Hi - it would normally be ok to run beef bulls in a field with a footpath in but not dairy bulls - cows with calves can be very aggressive particularly the off white / yellow Charolais ones.

People often get bothered by bullocks etc herds chasing people - they will normally run away if you stand up to them and tell them where to go but will carry on being inquisitive and run after you if you don't.

HSE used to have guidance on the subject - I used to work as one of HM Agricultural Inspectors of health and safety - but not sure if it is on their website

Generally cows are cool tho!

Bruce
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#4 Posted : 24 August 2007 12:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Linda Westrupp
Ian
Please see following advice from Defra to farmers on liability and safety when footpaths cross farmland.

"If an animal injures somebody or causes damage, you may be liable under the Animals Act 1971. The Countryside Agency has a produced a summary of the owners liability under the Animals Act 1971.

There are a number of precautions that can be taken:

consider temporarily fencing rights of way so that cattle cannot access them
dairy breed bulls must not be kept in fields with footpaths
beef stock bulls kept in such fields must be accompanied by female stock
consider carefully whether animals should be kept in fields with public access - this could include an assessment of animal temperament, the type of public access, and the sort of people likely to use the field in question"
Hope this helps
Linda

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#5 Posted : 24 August 2007 12:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kevin Drew
Ian,

It is an offence under section 59 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 to keep a bull in a field crossed by a public right of way.

There are exceptions to this ie if the bull is less than 10 months old and of a certain breed (see other postings above). The fine can be upto £200.

Kevin Drew
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#6 Posted : 24 August 2007 13:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight
Hi Kevin,

Didn't know that (as should be obvious by my posting which is evidently a load of bull, as it happens); thanks for the info,

John
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#7 Posted : 24 August 2007 15:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian D.
Thanks Guys
It never amazes me the knowledge which is out there.
I appreciate the advise about herds chasing you (yes this has happened to me and I did jump over the fence)

This may well be a stupid question but from a safe distance can you tell Diary bull from Beef bull (apologies if it is as daft a question as it feels, but 17 mining and 10 years in chemicals keeps you away from the countryside).
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#8 Posted : 24 August 2007 16:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze
Ian:

I'm guessing but...

If it's in a field with Fresian cows (black & white ones) it's probably a dairy bull.

If the cows it's with look in any way meaty or otherwise appetising (Welsh Blacks or Charolais round by us), then you've got a problem (or perhaps more than one problem)!

or you can download this handy guide courtesy of Devonshire CC:

http://www.devon.gov.uk/...y/faqs/bulls_on_prow.htm
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#9 Posted : 24 August 2007 16:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Round our way if they have long horns and are very hairy they could be either cows or bulls - of the Highland cattle variety. We also have a herd of Belgian Blues sitting across a footpath. I think that they are ignoring the signs though:-) as neither seem to understand plain english when it is spoken.

My main fear is however the field of 8 aberdeen angus stock bulls with a very rickety wire mesh fence along the road side of their field/empire. I am not going to see if they understand me however.

Bob
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#10 Posted : 24 August 2007 16:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By Thomas Kennedy
There was an incident a few tears back I recall where a water board employee was killed by a bull.

See attached link.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/387285.stm

Thomas
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#11 Posted : 24 August 2007 16:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Carl West
I sometiems wonder where the safety signs are in pamplona on 7th July ?

It makes you wonder how much hell bent we are on following regs when there are things like that going on

Makes the safety sign at the farm look mild

just a thought...
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#12 Posted : 24 August 2007 16:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By John_Webster
Robert

Have you tried Flemish, or possibly French?
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#13 Posted : 25 August 2007 16:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman
Beef or Dairy : Check for the presence or absence of tackle. If present run. if absent then don't worry too much.

Mind you, I wouldn't stand in the way of a 1-ton beastie. With or without.

Go for the fence. Or try chatting up his mum.

Merv (mind going boing again) is it still Friday ?

As with the earlier poster, you can't put a (fully tackled) bull where the public may roam.
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#14 Posted : 27 August 2007 13:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By steve e ashton
Just to note:

The WoSWA incident referenced above involved the bull crashing through the fence to get at the worker, who was effectively minding his own business (or at least his employer's business) on the public highway.

The prosecution was for failing to keep the animal behind a secure fence. Although in that case, 'secure' would probably have required the standard of fencing more commonly seen round elephant enclosures in wildlife parks. The bull was known to be bad tempered, and came through the field boundary at the gallop.

Don't assume that a few strands of wire (or a few thin strips of timber) will stop (or even noticeably slow) a stampeding chunk of beef. If your escape plan is to 'vault the fence' you may still be at risk. It is safer to identify an easy-climbing tree within reach!

Steve
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#15 Posted : 27 August 2007 18:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Pete48
Ian D,

The HSE provide detailed guidance on the matter of livestock being kept in fields with public access within Agricultural Information Sheet 17EW. Although aimed at farmers and landowners, it is worth a read by anyone who regularly uses the countryside via common rights of access. The Countryside Agency also provide some good leaflets.
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#16 Posted : 28 August 2007 14:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Smiff
You wanted a farmer, sorry I'm late!

Firstly; the risk to the public is greatest from cows, and more specifically suckler beef cows (mums with babies)

Secondly; it IS permissible to keep a bull in a field crossed by a RoW if it is with herd and not of a recognised dairy breed. (WACA '81)

Thirdly; Colour is little indication of cattle type. There are brown dairy cattle and (I have) black and white beef cattle. The best indication is the shape of the beasts.

Fourthly; You will not tell by the cows it is with if a bull is of a recognised dairy type. Dairy cows are typically put to a beef bull other than when breeding dairy stock, which is usually by AI.

Beef bulls will generally not have a problem unless you appear to pose a threat to him or his wifes (don't stand betweem him and his cows) or you otherwise agitate the herd (stand between the cows and calfs or frighten them). Approach making plenty of sound especially if they lying down. Singing is good. Get off your bike if riding one and approach on foot, that's more familiar to them. Go round the herd rather than splitting them up. Keep dogs under close control-short lead. Watch for body language- eye-rolling, tamping, snorting, head-shaking are generally bad things - curiosity, sniffing, following you around are usually signs the're happy. If in any doubt go the other way.
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#17 Posted : 28 August 2007 15:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian D.
Once again thank you all for the very useful information.

Ian
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