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#1 Posted : 04 September 2007 15:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By Drew
Hi everyone Drew here!

Does anyone have any guidance on what percentage weighting you may give to Health, Safety, Welfare and Environmental arrangements when evaluating an Invitation To Tender from prospective Contractors with regard to their overall bid for a construction project?

I'm pushing for 35 to 40% of the overall evaluation of a bid to be based on their HSW&E write up in the bid, outlining their performance and previous track record.

That would leave a 60 to 65% weighting on other aspects such as price / resource level commitment, LD's and other commercial stuff!

Any views or experience from anyone would be welcome with regard to my thoughts? My infrastructure and commercial colleauges are aghast as they only expected 15 to 20% weighting for HSW&E

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#2 Posted : 04 September 2007 15:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By The toecap
From experience, it doesn't matter. It always comes down to price. I've know a firm that i have worked for to have a good safety record. But were out priced because the council had a duty to provide value for money (VFM) to the residents. I know good saftey means VFM but thats councils for you.
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#3 Posted : 04 September 2007 15:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Descarte
I would disagree and say it depends on the industry and location, ie north sea oil and gas H+S would be taken above cost and a company with a accident/injury frequency rate too high would be discounted on just that alone!
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#4 Posted : 04 September 2007 15:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Drew
Thanks so far!

I understand that I should expect a rough ride from my production and commercial colleagues on this but I won't sit back and allow them to dictate purely on a basis of finance or productivity!

I'm in the railway industry where safety is paramount and so don't intend to allow people to get away with just paying it lip service!

Therefore anyone with actual experience of weighting H&S in the evaluation of bids would be of great interest to me and would strengthen my position I'm sure :-)
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#5 Posted : 04 September 2007 16:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Michelle L Dugard
Have you thought about using H&S as part of the pre-tender filtering rather than as such as massive part of the weighting process. ie: Ask to see accident reports/records, insurances, policy docs etc before you allow them to submit a price
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#6 Posted : 04 September 2007 16:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Drew
Michelle... thanks

This is the pre tender process and we are asking them that. It is what value I place on all of their responses that I'm trying to establish in comparison to commercial and other business priotities :-)
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#7 Posted : 04 September 2007 16:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By David Bannister
Hi Drew. Can you use the Link Up scheme to evaluate suppliers? My limited understanding of it suggests that if you don't have it, you don't get the rail work.
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#8 Posted : 04 September 2007 16:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By Drew
Hi david and thanks to you too :-)

Yes we use the link up scheme and all of the companies that we invite to tender are link up approved so that gets us over an initial hurdle!

Problem is once we get all of their bids back, my commercial guys are going to say "ok we will award a scoring / weighting of 60% on best price, and production will also fight for a high percentage on delivery timescales and experience and that will leave me with about 10 to maybe 20% scoring for H&S which I aint happy about!

We are going to fight it all out at a meeting at the end of this week and I think safety performance record should be given more of a say in deciding who gets the contract :-)
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#9 Posted : 04 September 2007 16:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Michelle L Dugard
Drew

If your commercial team are not involved at pre-tender then use as much weighting as you like - I would not ask for costs until they had met all the H&S pre-tender requirements and been suitably vetted anyway.
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#10 Posted : 04 September 2007 16:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT
I must agree with Descarte and others, and in particular with Michelle and the latest post made.

Rather than percentaging (probably no such word) the overall process, can it not be split so that information other than technical and price is on one side and technical and price on the other?

I spend some £5,000,000 per annum on after warranty maintenance throughout the Group and will always place emphasis on the safety element of a contractors submission, I will then look to see if the price is what I had in mind. At a punt; 60/40 in safety favour; that is only a punt as I have never thought about it before.

CFT
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#11 Posted : 04 September 2007 16:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By Drew
Hi again Michelle

Problem is that commercial are involved and they are saying to me "oh no you are asking for too much say!!" "we need to prioritise on cost control!!"

You see we are going to go straight to Invite To Tender stage without carrrying out a pre-qualification process! I see where you are coming from now but once we receive those tenders back they will include all aspects for evaluation including price!! And the purse string holders are playing hard ball!! :-)
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#12 Posted : 04 September 2007 16:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By Drew
Thats interesting CFT!

So you would decide 60% based on safety write up and 40% on price and other things. Great news! I hope more people take that viewpoint although pushing it up to 60% might be reaching for the moon. But thanks anyway!
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#13 Posted : 04 September 2007 17:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By John D Crosby
Hi Drew
Dupont had a saying that "safety was equal to cost, quality, production and morale" and they did rather well as a company - rated the world's most respected company. I have used this philosophy in both the private and the public sector without any problem and it always seemed to give us a good contractor.
Take care
John C
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#14 Posted : 05 September 2007 08:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By Drew
Thanks John!

Shall use that quote in my discussions / debate with my fellow colleagues on Friday!!
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#15 Posted : 05 September 2007 09:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By FJ
At the Pre-Tendering stage I use a total block
-if they fail significantly to meet certain standards.
The more they proceed through the process yes the "less" significance the "safety" side has in the scores- ending at c. 30% but as we have had such effect in the earlier stages I am less bothered- as has been said before "Value for money" tends to rule when the final decision is communicated to the powers that be, but I would suggest that a total veto at some stage is vital- otherwise you might be accused of allowing a company with relevant dubious safety standards to do your work
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#16 Posted : 05 September 2007 09:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze
That's more in line with what I thought FJ.

They can either do the job safely, or they can't.

If they can't do it safely, then why are we employing them?
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#17 Posted : 05 September 2007 09:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Rich T
I don't think it matters really - just make sure your "directing mind" has the final say, based on the information you all present to him/her.

Directors and senior managers have to make decisions based upon the likelihood of ALL of the identified business risks actually manifesting themselves. If they want to take a risk on the company that has a good price/delivery/etc. submission but a poor safety submission, then that is entirely their risk based judgement and their ultimate responsibility.
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#18 Posted : 05 September 2007 10:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT
Drew

As I said, it was 'punt' on 60/40 to safety favour, at the end of my day it is about a sensible approach and in some cases it may be higher in the safety side depending on whether the contracting company is new, what their record has been etc etc, for an established contractor with a gleaming safety record it may be less, but in all cases there will be minimum requirements, these will never be compromised.

CFT
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#19 Posted : 05 September 2007 11:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mark Eden
Drew
I am presuming you have a CDM Coordinator appointed for your project(if , why not?).
As the client ask the CDMC to test / check the H&S competency & resource of the contractors, most prospective PC's are used to this and can readily produce the necessary information.
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#20 Posted : 05 September 2007 15:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By Drew
I have CDMc's on a framework agreement that I will appoint at a time more suitable as it's too early yet but thanks in any case.

And thanks to everyone for comments so far!

Any more are gratefully appreciated
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