Posted By Iain Cameron Hi gang, I wonder if anyone can help me with regards to the safe storage of acetylene on a building site. We are taking delivery of 3 gasses (acetylene, oxygen and refrigerant gas) and I would like to know if there any specific storage requirements for any of these gasses (i.e. can they be stored together in a cage, or do they need to be separated). I've looked at the HSE for guidance and can (surprise, surprise) find nothing specific in INDG297 or INDG327. I've ordered GN2 (Guidance for the Storage of Transportable Gas Cylinders for Industrial Use. Revision 3: 2005) from the BCGA, but I'd appreciate any feedback anyone has. Cheers,

Posted By Robert K Lewis Oxygen must be stored separate, min 6m or firewall, from flammable gases. Separate cages are therfore required. Bob

Posted By Merv Newman Crim is close but Bob is better. you don't have to separate inerts from oxygen. Whats to go wrong ? But you mustmustmust separate oxygen from anything flammable. And anything flammable (acet, hydrogen, methane, butane, pentane ..) from oxygen. And yes, the fire brigade will establish an exclusion zone. They will probably not send anyone into your building but they will pour lots of water on it. There go all the computers. Locked exterior cages with masonry walls between flammables and oxygen. Oxy/acetylene trolleys wheeled outside every night. Have you heard the one about a gas cylinder that chased a block through a six-inch wall ? Merv

Posted By Peter MacDonald Hi We use large amounts of Oxygen and Propane on site for steel processing. Our Oxygen and Propane bottles are kept seperate, minimum distance of 7 mtrs while in use. The Oxy bottles are stored individually, upright in Gas trolleys, the propane is stored in a pack of twelve as delivered by BOC. These packs can easily be moved around site and placed in safe areas when not in use. We have eight packs on site at the moment and each location is marked on the site plan for emergency use but they are all in a safe location with regard to combustible material. Peter

Posted By Iain Cameron Thanks a million, guys. Most helpful. It is not our own employees that are coming onto site with the oxy/acetylene, but our subcontractors. However, as we ourselves are subcontractors to the MAIN contractor(!) then it is essential that we store the equipment in the correct manner. PS. After how long a period of time storing acetylene on site does one have to contact the emergency services to advise them? Many thanks.

Posted By Bob Thompson CMIOSH keep oxgen cylinders away from oil too has the same effect as copper and acetylene

Posted By Crim A good contractor will have adequate means of transferring cylinders/trollys on and off his vehicle, manual handling etc. therefore I think removing the risk altogether from site is the best option and cheaper than providing storage cages, fire extinguishers/signage etc. If left on site I'm sure the cylinder trolleys will eventually be found dotted around the site as control will be lost once new hazard/risks are introduced as the work progresses. I would rather not take the chance of closing down a major high street due to a fire on site, for 24/48 hours as the fire brigade treat any fire where acetylene could be involved as a major incident and explosion risk. This, of course is my opinion and I can achieve this on the sites I have responsibilities for, you just do your own thing.

Posted By Peter MacDonald Sorry wrong way round 86 Oxy, 8 Gas, If I could find them I'd count them....

Posted By Paul M69 Iain, The London Fire Brigade are promoting greater awareness of the dangers of cylinders involved in fires - check out their web site where you can download a campaign leaflet. http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/news/cylinders.asp Regards, Paul.

Posted By Peter MacDonald No, not really, they'll turn up. The guys hide them sometimes as a joke.

Posted By Iain Cameron OK guys, I've just found out that it will be Portapak oxy acetylene that will be coming to site. Five of them in total. I'm assuming that the stock advice would be to get the subbies to remove them each night? I favour this approach, but am anticipating the inevitable "that's too much hassle" comment from all and sundry.

Posted By Bob Thompson CMIOSH Hi Merve you are now an honorary welder capable of talking shop with the most hairy back sided of welders. On a more practical note and general note of caution Bagging should be checked on a daily basis Even if not in use, the pipes should also be purged after shutting of the regs (Regulators Merv). I have had personal experience where a hole in a pipe has been ignited by static causing a very frightening flame thrower effect. the pipes were rolled up on the floor at the time and the bottles shut off however due to the length of the pipes approx 50 meters there was sufficient gas in them to cause quite a major problem. Regards Bob

Posted By Kevin Drew Iain, I have to admit that I disagree with a lot of what's been said above. First of all you need to read HSG 139, The safe use of compressed gases in welding, flame cutting and allied preocess (assuming this is what your using the oxygen and acetylene for?). HSG 139 references out to BCGA guidance note 2, Guidance for the storage of gas cylinders in the workplace (I think that you may have the wrong title). Revision 3:2005 takes acount of DSEAR. GN 2 clearly states that the minimum separation distance between cylinders of oxidants and flammable gases (eg. acetylene) is zero metres. If you also had LPG this would be completely different but based on the information provided you haven't. So you do not need to store the cylinders in separate cages, etc and you do not need fire walls. GN 2 also has lots of other useful information on separation distances of cylinders from other gas storage and other features, building openings, smoking, naked flames, etc, etc. GN 2 really is essential reading. HSG 139 advises that cylinders ready for use and connected to equipment may be kept inside a workroom and that a spare cylinder of acetylene and oxygen may also be kept there. There would appear to be a lot of misinformation out there. Hope this helps. Kevin

Posted By Jane Blunt You can get the publication from the BCGA web address: http://www.bcga.co.uk/ Jane

Posted By Lloyd Cole I wouldnt like to manage 8o cylinders of explosive gas in a high street site, as an ex fire officer I think you should contact the local Fire Station and ask for advise.Ive got a feeling i know what they are going to say... Ive some pictures taken last week of oxy acetylene tubing up a building, contact me and i will forward to you all.

Posted By MP http://www.bcga.co.uk/publications/L6.html http://www.bcga.co.uk/publications/TIS08.pdf