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#1 Posted : 21 September 2007 09:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By steve e ashton
I think the news today (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7005556.stm) is interesting.

This is claimed to be the first time the information has been put together like this! I am sure someone knew the figures previously - since it may go some way to explaining why the Corporate Manslaughter Bill amendment was so hotly contested on deaths in custody!

Steve
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#2 Posted : 21 September 2007 09:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By Amanda
The figures were always available through such bodies as the Inspectorates for each institution. The deaths in custody need to be put into context, ie the population in custody and the number of deaths (and the reasons) set against the same for the wider community not in custody.
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#3 Posted : 22 September 2007 01:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By MP Grayson
Good point Amanda and thanks.

I am the SHEF Manager in a very large, high security prison and I totally agree. A comparison is needed but I think it is an impossible task, we can never make comparisons.

As stated in the article, two-thirds of the deaths are from natural causes. So let’s look at them first. In reality a cell is a prisoner’s home, so compare the number of prisoners that passed away in their cell last night with the number of people who died in their beds at home last night? We can't do it because of other factors such as general fitness. Prisoners have time on their hands. They don’t make New Year resolutions to use the gym and then not bother, many of them practically live for the time on the football pitch or in the gym etc. There will also have to be consideration for diet and average ages etc.

As for self harm and overdoses, we have systems in place to try and minimise the risk as low as possible. But face it, if you were on the wrong end of a 30 year stretch, locked into your room and garden with no light at the end of a tunnel for that amount of time, you would be a tad depressed. If you really, really and I mean really wanted to, you would eventually find a way to end it all. Also bear in mind that that many successful suicides are as a result of a cry for help that goes wrong. Prisoners know that at certain times an officer will come into their cell to check them. So it’s a good way to cry for help if they get the timing right. Trouble is that sometimes operational incidents can vary routines at the last minute and before they know it, it’s just too late. I would bet that a comparison with those that took their own lives at home would show that we generally have a lower “successful” suicide rate. Consider for example this little gem, if you get seriously depressed at home you don’t have the option of being put in a special bedroom with a Plexiglas door and have someone outside, sat on a chair watching you 24/7.

As for corporate manslaughter, had deaths in custody been excluded, then any deaths as a result of accidents within prisons would still in my mind have been included.

One more point. The population inside is a fluid one, there maybe 10,000 behind bars but they are never constantly the same 10,000 over a set period. How do you factor in releases and new offenders into the stats?

OK some may say lock them up and throw a way the key. I don’t, yeah fair cop they broke the law, THE POLICE arrested them, THE JURY convicted them and THE JUDGE sentenced them. We in the prison services are none of the above. We try our best to ensure that they are safe whilst in our custody to the best of our ability. But you know, we do have special circumstances and when the press feel that they want to sell newspapers, we are too easy a target.
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#4 Posted : 23 September 2007 20:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Amanda

We must not forget that the at risk population in general is not supervised as closely as the custodial population. The issue hits home when one hears that the suicide tendency is known and not followed up or extreme restraint is used as the immediate response not one of last resort.

Bob
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#5 Posted : 24 September 2007 10:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Amanda
Having been a QHSE manager within a high security prison myself who collated the figures for prison monitoring I tried to explain to those who do not understand that the DoC need to be put into context. Prison population 88,000 600 deaths (400 natural causes) UK population 60,0000 how many deaths? Hope this explains why I put a response which stated we need to look at these deaths in context.

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#6 Posted : 24 September 2007 10:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Amanda
Ooopps missed a 0 it should read 60 million (and how many do we not know about)
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