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Posted By A Hayden
My boss has just come into work, he thinks he has chicken pox, (his kids have it and his glands are swollen) and has sent a 27 week pregnant lady home.
Is he over reacting? If not how long should the pregnant worker stay home for?
Are there anyone else he has put at risk? There is one lady with diabetes who occasionally gets shingles, is she at risk?
I would appreciate any advice regarding this matter.
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Posted By J Knight What I would do first is ask the woman if she has had chicken pox in the past; if she has the risk is minimal. Herpes is included in the list of infectious agents mentioned in HSG122 as capable of infecting the unborn child; unfortunately it isn't clear if this refers only to Herpes simplex or if it includes other Herpes agents, such as Herpes zoster, the chickenpox virus. I also found this link http://www.womens-health.co.uk/chickpox.asp which goes into some detail about the possible effects of chicken pox on a pregnant woman; however to repeat my first point, if the woman has had chicken pox before there is almost no chance that she or the baby will be at risk, John
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Posted By mrs.seed
Chicken Pox plus pregnancy are not a good match, it can do damage to the unborn child. But surely this is the wrong way around because you dont know what conditions other staff have and this is very contagious. Your boss should go home, if not for moral reaons then business ones. If he has got chicken pox, then other staff will pick it up and be off sick,not to mention they will pass it on to their kids and need extra time off work to look after them.
A bad business descision all round.
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Posted By Dave Wilson
I think that this is sensible risk management as this lady is at risk and the consequences could be dire and the remedy is easy, as long as she is not disadvantaged by this action, good on him!
shingles is not an airborne infection and cannot be passed on easily so I do not think there is not much risk in that situation.
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Posted By A Hayden
Thanks for the link. It is very helpful.
She is pretty sure that she has had chicken pox, but will check with her Mum.
If she has had it, do you think it will be allright for her return to work?
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Posted By Kenneth Patrick
Why not send your boss home?. Too many people come into work when they could affect others with their illness
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Posted By J Knight
Hi,
If she has had chicken pox I think she should be OK to come back to work, on the other hand if she's being paid she may as well take the time out. For final assurance she could talk to her GP or your occy health service if you have access to one.
I agree that the boss should go home though; working through a severe viral infection can have dire, long-term health effects,
John
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Posted By Jan Rowney
I would always recommend that she contact her own GP - s/he will have her full medical history and be able to determine the risks to her and possibly her baby.
It is very inconsiderate for any employee to attend work while ill with something infectious.
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Posted By Tabs
With regards to the others involved, call the NHS Direct on 0845 4647 ... this IOSH forum is not a medical reference site - you should be talking to medical experts.
Ask them about disinfection of his workstation too ...
My boss came to work with chicken pox without telling anyone, and promptly gave it to me!
It was just before Christmas and completely ruined my festive season. An adult contracting CP is seriously uncomfortable, I felt like death warmed up for the two weeks that should have been my happy holiday!
Send the boss home, involving HR if you have to.
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Posted By J Knight
Tabs,
Don't agree that this isn't an appropriate forum for this discussion; since the publication of HSG122 we have had to have regard to pregnancy, and it really does involve us and our opinions. We aren't medical experts no, and NHS Direct is not a bad idea, but what seems to have happened here is that the boss has made a dubious decision based on zero knowledge, what has been suggested in this thread is a number of routes by which a more informed decision could be made; don't see a problem myself.
But once again, the boss should go home, pregnant worker or no,
John
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Posted By Ali
If the mother has had chicken pox then she and her foetus are at negligible risk. If she is unsure whether she has had Chicken pox, then she should do a blood test for antibodies. In this case, the risk could be very high particularly in the last trimester of pregnancy.
Ali
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Posted By A Hayden
Thank you everyone for your responses. I shall get some sort of disinfectant for my bosses office. I shall advise the pregnant lady to consult with her GP on when it is best to return to work.
This has all been very helpful.
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Posted By Tabs
John,
I don't disagree that we have duties to the pregnant lady - what I suggest is that the duty is to seek professional medical advice. In your previous post above you use the phrase "I think..." I would want to be sure, hence my suggestion to use HSE Direct.
The original questions could all be answered by the helpline with authority.
If someone called HSE Direct and asked them about a safety issue, I would expect them to refer the caller to a h&s source rather than pass on what they thought.
But please accept my apologies if you hold medical qualifications. I don't think many of us do.
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Posted By Lilian McCartney
I was once in a situation where an employee went off sick with chickenpox but didn't want any of the staff to know. The Manager asked me and I said that if we had anyone pregnant they would need to know particularly if they had been in close contact with the person the previous few days.
It turns out someone was pregnant, they wen tot their GP for advice and all was ok.
People on steroids can have serious side effects from chicken pox virus so other staff need to know as well (I didn't know thiss til I was put on a high does for my myositis).
Seems boss during incubation period should cut down on exposure to others.
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Posted By J Knight
No Tabs, I don't, though perhaps Safety Medic does. Note that I suggested contact with a GP or Occy Health, just to be sure; and I almost always say 'I think', because often what is sought is an opinion,
John
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Posted By AF
Tabs is right, we are not expert medical practitioners, with the ability to dish out medical advice.
We are merely humble practitioners, with the ability to provide the assess the risks of harm, and appropriate controls to minimise that harm.
In this particular case, it is advisable to seek medical advice.
What people also tend to forget is that in moste cases, no-one knows they have chickenpox until the spots start appearing. The most contagious period is the 5 days prior.........!
Only when the spots start crusting over, then it is safe to be in contact with people (whether they want to be near you is a different matter!)
Trust me, as one who experienced chickenpox (contracted from my young son) two years ago at the age of 41, the symptoms and effects are far worse for an adult than for a child, and I wouldnt wish this on my worst enemy.
To reiterate, seek the appropriate medical advice.
Alex
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Posted By Della Pearlman
You should also check the risks to people other than the pregnant woman - for example anyone with poor or reduced immunity e.g. having chemotherapy, is at risk from an infection such as chicken pox. Your boss needs to go to his GP to get the diagnosis confirmed, and then you need to notify the staff of the potential risk.
As far as I know, shingles can not be triggered by contact with someone who has chickenpox. If you have had chicken pox (e.g as a child), the virus lies dormant in the spinal cord. If the virus reactivates (ie. in elderly people whose immune system is weak), it causes shingles.
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Posted By Simon Shaw
I don't necessarily think that one should never give advice about medical issues - a simple search on the nhsdirect website brings this .........
"If a woman comes into contact with chickenpox or shingles when pregnant, there is no problem if she has had it before, because it makes the body immune to it (re-infection is rare). This means the baby is not at risk of chickenpox even if the mother develops shingles during pregnancy.
If the woman has not had chickenpox before, or is unsure if she has, she should see her GP to be tested for it. If this shows she has not had chickenpox and has no antibodies, then chickenpox antibodies can be given. This is best given within 4 days (but can be given up to 10 days) of coming into contact with the chickenpox virus."
So why waste the time of a GP or nhsdirect nurse when you could easily find this information and provide the advice?
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Posted By Darren Pearson
There's a lot of differing advise here and would like to add my thoughts from personal experience.
The vaccine for chicken pox contains a live virus - if you give this to a patient who is immune suppressed it is potentially fatal.
My daughter is a transplant patient and we regularly drive to school to collect her when another child has chicken pox. My work colleagues always inform me if their children have chicken pox. In either case we take her straight to the surgery or hospital for tests / injection etc.
You will never waste the time of a GP when you are unsure of facts - always seek professional advise as you never know the extent of others circumstances.
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Posted By pat merchant
A Hayden
Have you got a Risk Assessment in place for the Pregnant lady? I think you are required to and this would identify these issues in advance from information attained from the correct people. She can also be exposed to other hazards that could harm unborn children such as toner ink fumes from copier machines which is a hazard on some types of machine. the risk assessment covers you for other issues such as manual handling etc and make clear guidelines for future employees becoming pregnant.
Pat
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Posted By CFT
I'm with Tabs; it can be extremely harmful to the unborn foetus and further advice should be obtained from specialists in this field.
CFT
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Posted By GT
A. Hayden,
Perhaps the heading is misleading
Is there a case to answer by the company who allow the manager to work with the knowledge that he could affect/infect the welfare of others employed....is there a duty of care........ missing here or do I get the wrong picture of the legislation.
GT
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Posted By A Hayden
Firstly may I thank everyone for their responses.
Following the advice here we suspended our employee on full pay until she had seen her GP and followed his advice. She had blood tests which confirmed that she was immune to Chicken pox and her GP was happy to let her return to work.
I have done RAs regularly and did include infectious diseases, but I did not realise that Chicken pox could lead to such problems in pregnancy. I really only thought that Rubella was the main problem.
Her Doctor said that our boss was probably infectious for a good few days before his spots came out so any infection would have been passed prior to his diagnosis.
My boss has now said that it was actually shingles he had, not chicken pox. He is one of the senior partners of a SME and manages the business on a day to day basis. He is from the old school and will drag himself into work coughing and sneezing but expects everyone else to as well. I will suggest he stays at home if he is unwell.
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