Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

IOSH Forums are closing 

The IOSH Forums will close on 5 January 2026 as part of a move to a new, more secure online community platform.

All IOSH members will be invited to join the new platform following the launch of a new member database in the New Year. You can continue to access this website until the closure date. 

For more information, please visit the IOSH website.

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Admin  
#1 Posted : 30 October 2007 15:16:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Chris Harris

Wotherspoon v HM Advocate [1978] JC 74, &
R V P Limited 11 July 2007

Information has been received on these 2 cases just when I am trying to clarify & fine tune our various Directors Responsibilities. Can someone explain to me the difference these judgements make on the actions & liabilities of Directors & senior managers over section 37 offences as opposed to vicarious liability? or am I just getting confused.

Some clarity would appreciated as I have to pass this on to them in a suitable format sooner or later.

Many thanks
Chris


Admin  
#2 Posted : 30 October 2007 15:59:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Just to confuse you further I think it was last months SHP that reported the new ruling on S37 - Matters which a director ought to have known.

Vicarious liability has only a real effect in the civil courts where a claim is being made. An employer is liable for his employee acting in the course of the employees duties.

S37 concerns the actions and inactions of directors and senior company officers. For instance turning a blind eye to actions known to be unsafe or failing to manage in a manner that ensured that he/she was aware of the information that ought to be known by a person in that position. It comes back to the very 19th century stance that persons who put people to work should take responsibility for exposing them to risk - I did not know even though I could have done is not an acceptable answer.


Thats my ten pennyworth anyway

Bob
Admin  
#3 Posted : 30 October 2007 16:16:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Raymond Rapp
Chris

Bob has summarised the case law principles very well. I have written a short review based on the SHP article for my management team that I will be happy to pass on to you if you email me direct.

Regards

Ray
Admin  
#4 Posted : 30 October 2007 17:05:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Tarquin Farquor
Chris,

Practically it widens the scope of Sec 37 actions meaning that they will be easier to bring and succeed.

Part of the trade off for not having regulated directors duties and only guidance?

Regards,

TF.
Admin  
#5 Posted : 02 November 2007 13:15:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Phil Grace
Chris,
Just adding another take on this - nothing wrong or incorrect with what has been said. But:

s37 is part of the criminal law - and there is nothing in the criminal law about "liability" which is a concept from civil law.
Vicarious liability is a concept from the civil law where one person is regarded as being liable for the actions of another person. Thus there is a common law duty for employers to supply competent fellow employees. If a badly trained FLT driver injures a fellow employee the employer is held to be vicariously liable for the actions of the untrained driver.

Hope that helps clarify matters
Admin  
#6 Posted : 09 November 2007 15:10:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By David Combes
Hi Chris
I have just read the latest case and I can see why you are confused.

S.3 of the Act places a duty the employer and S.33 creates an offence of strict liability for a breach of that duty. Strict liability means that no mens rea (guilty knowledge) has to be proved as to a single element of the actus reus (state of affairs). Essentially if the circumstances arise then an offence is committed.

The employer is vicariously liable for the acts of the employee where the offence is one of strict liability. The failure of the employee is therefore the failure of the employer. The duty under S.3 can not be delegated and the Company, in this case, is liable for its own failure of duty through its employees.

When it comes to S.37 there are two main issues. Firstly who is liable? Tesco v Natrass applies and it is those persons named within the section who are the alter ego of the Company i.e. the directing mind. The employee driving the fork truck would merely be "the hands"carrying out the actions of the directing mind, the MD.

Secondly What are they liable for? S.37 makes it clear that it is for "consent, connivance, or neglect" Consent and connivance both require mens rea or knowledge. Neglect has been defined as "some failure to do something that a person ought to have done" (R v Mc.Millan Aviation Ltd 1981, Wotherspoon v H M advocate)
This would encompass the situations where
i. the Director knew but did nothing;
ii. he should , by reason of the circumstances, been put on notice of the failure; and iii. he suspects but did nothing to see if those suspicions were justified.

I trust this clarifies the situation.

Regards
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.