Posted By Garry Adams Are all accidents preventable , Eemmm that one is well worthy of healthy debate. Firstly, lets start with a definition of an accident, for the purposes of this debate I shall elect to cite Plato's definition, Quote, That which happens blindly without intelligent design, End Quote. All accidents are preventable, this may be achieved by dissemination of information and education. However , as we all know one cannot legislate against human error and there lays the paradox, it is Mankind's frailty that is the weakest link. This Forum can play its part in the education of all and sundry by adopting an open door approach to the esoteric teachings of the World of Health and Safety.

Posted By Brian Welch The Zero Accident Philosophy the holy grail of all business? Sounds like it belongs up there with the quality continuous improvement viewpoint. Sometimes within continuous improvement you have to accept that staying constant is in itself an achievement. Let’s face it we all strive to reduce accidents to the lowest possible levels; however, efforts and resources will be dispensed based upon risk, its no good watching the ants as the elephants walk by. The concept that ALL accidents are preventable is one that starts in the boardroom and they need to provide those down at the coal face more than just fine words to achieve their holy grail. You also need to quantify your accidents within your zero accident philosophy; do you use RIDDOR reportable, lost time or all accidents down to paper cuts? As they say production should never compromise safety…I wash my mouth out with soap for even daring to mention such blasphemy… Brian

Posted By CFT Man walks along and knee gives way for no apparent reason, this causes a stumble and head bangs on the edge of a wall; results in serious concussion and hospital stay (a real life scenario) How then would this and thousands of events similar every year be preventable?? Oh fine, trip over a raised slab, fix it; trip over a movable obstruction, move it; etc etc Zero tolerance, zero result with thousands of employees? All down to superb control measures, monitoring surveillance etc etc? Nothing to do with being lucky then? In this responders opinion they are not all preventable and I have always considered the statement to be somewhat of a 'no brainer!' CFT (fully expecting some flack)

Posted By Tabs All accidents happen because we (humans) like to take processes, environment, actions, and behaviour as close to 'the edge' as we can get away with (or kill ourselves, at which point the edge has been encountered). Take CFT's example: "this causes a stumble and head bangs on the edge of a wall; results in serious concussion and hospital stay". Why didn't we protect the edge of the wall with foam - it was foreseeable that a hard edge would hurt someone. Why was the man walking? We could have had him in a motorised chair, with stabilisers. Ridiculous - but accident prevented. It is a choice we all make or are part of - an environment and life that is practical, not too costly and not too restrictive. Bridges don't have to collapse - they could all be made so thick and strong as to survive thousands of years - but that is expensive, and ugly - so we calculate failure designs and then add safety factors (we even choose what safety factor to add). Safe systems of work are rarely completely safe - but they allow us to do what we need to do within the realms of practicality. Do we build our work environment to withstand an aircrash if we are on a flight path? Do you want to prevent all accidents - well, yes, why not - if it doesn't interfere with life or make life so expensive that we can't continue to make a viable living. I can't see it though. And staying at home doesn't help - I have just done a quick mental count of my own last two or three injuries - and they all happened at home. I might have to bring my bed into work ....

Posted By Steve Cartwright Definition of an accident. An unforeseen event that causes harm or damage to a person or property. You can discuss it all you like, you will never prevent accidents. Most accidents are foreseeable and preventitive measures have been put in place, i.e. speed limits on roads etc. Yet everyday there are car accidents. Humans you see are not very sensible. They like to take risks. Sometimes they get away with it and sometimes they don't. Jeremy Clarkson once said "if you stuck a 6 inch spike in the middle of your steering wheel instead of an airbag you'd drive a lot more carefully".

Posted By Crim How can one foresee the unforeseen? If anyone has the answer to this all accidents may be preventable. Until then ????????

Posted By Chris Packham As humans we keep pushing the envelope. If we hadn't we would still be living in caves and attempting to run from that sabre-toothed tiger. If we do keep pushing the envelope then inevitably we will encounter that factor that we could not have foreseen as the knowledge simply was not yet there. All accidents are preventable? By the very definition, how can they be? Chris

Posted By Pete48 Of course it is not practicably true for most places at most times and it never can be in reality for all the reasons we have recorded here. BUT and it is a big but, we have been able to move a lot of people towards and beyond better and better accident prevention and reduction as a result of having it as a banner. It never was a target, just a vehicle to improve the lamentable approach to those two precepts.

Posted By Raymond Rapp As the previous respondent has alluded, all accidents are not preventable and if they were the controls would be undesirable. Many people take risks as part of their every day life, whether at work or outside of it. I think the safety profession and the regulators do not fully appreciate the subtleties of the concept. Unfortunately, accidents and the causal factors are easy to identify after the event. This creates a climate of re-activeness, which is often incongruous to the notion of proactive safety management. Ray

Posted By John J Surely it's all about desirable targets. If I set myself a taget of only having 10 accidents a year does that not say I'm accepting less than I should. I remember one of our managers in a discussion about apprentices saying that it was natural that they cut their hands as it was part of the learning process. Once they had done it they would learn it hurt and not do it again. When it was suggested we line them up on their first day and slash their hands with a stanley (other knives are available) knife to get it done with it was greeted with horror. Effectively that's what we were doing. A good look at the accidents allowed us to implement suitable controls. Result zero accidents. I still do the lottery, I don't expect I'll definitely win but I keep trying. John