Rank: Guest 
|
Posted By Malcolm Greenhouse http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg376.pdfThe above link is to a HSE booklet on the subject of Legionella in residential properties. Having read the leaflet it would appear that as a landlord of properties, a housing trust, we are responsible for risk assessing the properties with respect to Legionella. The question is, is this correct, are we expected to have risk assessed all our stock for Legionella? I am currently proposing that as properties become vacant we should check for dead legs, the cleanliness of water storage tanks, that such tanks have tight fitting lids and that shower heads are removed. However only checking properties as they become empty may well mean that some properties will not be checked for 40 years! Anyone any thoughts? Especially if you have experience of Legionella in the social housing market. Mal
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By J Knight
Bleeagh. We have a number of small flats above shops so I guess this would apply to us. We are very diligent about Legionella in our Care Centres, but I didn't realise the extent to which L8 would apply outside a work context,
John
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Amanda
My understanding is:
It does not apply to individual residential properties, ie own front door and water system.
It does apply to communal properties such as Sheltered Housing, Hostels etc. flats which share water systems etc.
This theory was tested at the beginning of the year and confirmed as correct by the Health Authority, Local EHO and the HSE.
If we had to undertake testing it would mean in excess of 6000 homes and then the applicable places and workplaces.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By holmezy
Malcolm,
if you are a landlord or owner of the accomodation then you would have a duty to manage etc. This would include RA for the legionella risk. Usual stuff applies, ie dead legs, water tanks to current standards, lids, vents, insect traps etc In reality, most, if not all, residential type proprties will be low risk due to the high flow through of water and low storage qty, temp of stored water,( combi boiler even better) frequency of showers etc, absence of recirculating systems, low mist production etc.
If you RA against the guidance in L8 then it should be, dare I suggest it, almost a paperwork excercise, with very few actions required.
If a property is to be left empty for any length of time, then a "drain down" and disinfect / chlorination may be required prior to re occupying, with particular attention to the shower heads.
useless info......... in hotels on the continent that reopen for the spring season without draining down during winter. Ideal temperature for bugs to multiply etc. Whats one of the first things that folks do when they get to their hotel room? they turn the shower on. Then return from their jollies with "flu like" symptoms. Go to the doctors who prescibe antibiotics that have absolutely no effect at all? Wonder how many had a mild dose of legionella without knowing it?
Holmezy
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Malcolm Greenhouse
I too have always understood that single type domestic dwellings were not covered by the L8 regulations even if under Landlord control but the leaflet referred to in the opening message does not confirm this. Indeed it states that to find out if the regulations apply to you ask the question if the tap broke would you have to fix it. If the answer is yes then the regulations apply to you.
As a social landlord my organisation do fix taps on our 6000 properties so the question is do we have to carry out a risk assessment? My thoughts would be to not risk assess any properties with combi boilers as they have the hot water instantaneously heated. However where water is stored, as in the old header tank systems, we have the problem of the stored water both in the hot tank and in the header in the loft. Do we have to check all header tanks for cleanliness and tight fitting lids?
When a property becomes empty we will undertake such tasks and inspections in anticipation of the property being empty for a period of time but do we have to do it on the occupied properties?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Adrian Watson
In all cases landlords have responsibilities under the common law and the Housing Act 2005 to ensure that premises are safe.
As the HSWA 74 only applies to the non-domestic parts of premises used as a workplace, persons in control of premises have a duty to take precautionary and protective measures where there is a risk to health from exposure to legionella in respirable aerosols in these parts of the premises.
If the premises comply with the Building Regulations and the Water Supply Regulations there should be no risk from legionellosis, providing that after any work has been carried out on the water system that pipes and water tanks are clean and that the lid is replaced on the tank.
Regards Adrian
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By col
A generic assessment will be ok so long as you are able to identify the different types of system(s) that you have installed - clearly some systems, e.g. those that do not have stored water such as combi-boilers, will present a much lower risk that others.
As I read the Management regs, the disapplication means that domestic
services are not covered - as I understand it this means those such as cooks, maids baby-sitters etc in the employ of a private householder. Your business (as the landlord) is the provision of housing and maintaining that housing including the water systems. Therefore you have a duty under S3 of the HSWA to protect those not in your employ, i.e. tenants, from any risks arising from your business - by carrying out an assessment and putting in place appropriate controls.
Hope this helps
If you would like further advice in this matter please contact me
Colin Huskisson
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Adrian Watson
Whilst s3 does apply the HSWA 74 does not apply to domestic premises.
Regards Adrian
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By col http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg376.pdfthe above web page is the free leaflet aimed at local authorities etc who let properties as part of their business, question: if a person contracts legionella whilst at home (local authority or private tenant) and the hot water cylinder has a fault causing it to blow off, has an open vent going back to the tank, therefore causing the temperature in the tank to increase allowing the proliferation of legionella who is to blame? under HSWA section 3 it is the person who lets the property.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Ninapalmer I would like to take the opportunity to help answer any questions you may have - I work for a Water Treatment and Consultancy Company and advise all of the local Councils and several property management companies in London on the chlorination, remedial works and monitoring programmes which need to be put in to place to keep them compliant and protect their tenants from all the 'nasties' which can both live and breed in our domestic water systems. Should you require any help, please do not hesitate to either ask via this posting or contact me at nina@city-water.com.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.