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#1 Posted : 05 December 2007 16:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By Graham Summersgill we are constructing a new workshop for our vehicle mechanic's, thus installed a inspection pit. any body have any spec's to the requirements for fall protection markings, covers or barriers!
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#2 Posted : 05 December 2007 17:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Merchant An inspection pit would be simple Work at Height Regulations territory as it's a part of the building rather than a "product". Covers or edge protection would be required when not in use, and exclusion measures (hazard tape barriers etc. set farther back) when it's open. No specific requirement to erect signs when not in use unless there's another hazard such as a load limit on the covers, but most people paint the edges yellow. It's not a replacement for barriers but helps stop those inside the hazard area from failing to see where they're walking. There's a Confined Space Regs issue too, as inspection pits without adequate ventilation can easily fill with fumes and suffocate people.. it happens regularly when someone's working under a vehicle with an engine running or vents the gas in an aircon system. There's a chunk on the HSE website about this, such as their example RA:- http://www.hse.gov.uk/risk/casestudies/pdf/mvr.pdf
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#3 Posted : 05 December 2007 22:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Hunter Sorry to put a downer on proceedings, but the plain and simple truth is that pits do not reflect current best practice and will certainly be frowned upon by HSE on a new build workshop. My advice? fill it in and install suitable vehicle lifts (I hope the roof's high enough). Seriously, Graham you've got a problem there.
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#4 Posted : 06 December 2007 09:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By DRB I agree with Ron. I used to work in the bus industry and they are gradually coming around to the idea of vehicle lifts rather than pits. If you've got to live with the pit contact the manufacturer, assuming its a steel pit, and ask about covers. You can get powered telescopic covers for them. Alternatively try nets which can easily be pulled across when the pit is not in use. They are not ideal but they are more likely to get used than barriers. Do the usual risk assessments and make sure training, tool box talks, etc take place. That may help to placate the HSE. If they do complain remind them its up to you to decide what's reasonably practicable and filling in the pit isn't. Good luck
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#5 Posted : 06 December 2007 10:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By Karen Todd Hi there, There are a few lines in HSG 67 about pits and I'll send you a pic of marking round pits I've seen. I don't want to advertise the company concerned, but you can get motorised pit covers. It's not always possible to retrofit them, and I think the pit has to have a jacking rail otherwise they can't be fitted at all. I imagine they are rather expensive - and as sure as anything someone will drive on them (they are not designed for this)... KT
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#6 Posted : 06 December 2007 12:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Pete Sutton I too was faced with this dilemma a few months back and after consultation with my learned friends, i decided to overrule management and scrap the pit idea. As a result we are now installing hydraulic lifts after a little rerouting of electric conduit and a light fitting which works out cheaper (and safer) than the pit idea anyway. Mail me if you need any info as i have a fair bit collected..pete
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#7 Posted : 16 March 2009 07:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By sweeper Hi Just wandering if any one has visited the pit idea lately, i am being asked to consider them for my workshop, MD is dutch and it is still common on the continent, i am not keen myself, but could do with some back up evidence to support my objections, which are health and safety related as well as practicality and flexibility, with prtable lifts being my choice. He is more for the pits as the lifts look untidy especially when the leads are across the floors.
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#8 Posted : 16 March 2009 10:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Graham Bullough During my years as a HSE inspector I visited numerous garage workshops and can readily echo previous responders with the advice that pits may appear to be cheaper than hoists but pose various significant risks and problems. The obvious problem is one of stopping people from falling into pits. Vehicle workshop people are usually too busy to use pit covers or barriers for pits which are not in use. Allied to this is the fact that if a pit is only going to be left un-used for a short period of time, most people will think - quite understandably - that it's not worth going to the effort of making it safe for such a period. Over the years some people have been killed or seriously burned in pits by fires/explosions stemming from the accidental ignition of petrol or LPG which has leaked into their pits from vehicles and other sources. Related to this is the fact that rapid egress from a pit, especially when part covered by a vehicle, can be difficult. Think of the pit as a "confined space". This aspect may be less critical for a workshop with foundations built on a slope which may allow one end of a pit to be open and thus permit easier egress to outside and also the outward movement of heavier-than-air highly flammable liquids and vapours. Also, it is harder for workers to move tools, equipment and vehicle parts into and out of a pit compared with on a flat floor beneath a vehicle hoist. Also debris tends to accumulate in pits and is harder to remove than from a floor beneath a hoist. Thus, though vehicle hoists are costly to buy and install, and thereafter need regular maintenance and checks, they will prove to be far better than inspection pits.
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#9 Posted : 16 March 2009 10:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By sweeper Thank you for that info. I will be using some of that to state my case, I will be visiting workshops in Germany and Holland in the next few weeks, two of which are brand new, and have had pits installed so i will be questioning our European colleagues as to their choice and how they minimize the risks.
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#10 Posted : 16 March 2009 13:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By Martin Gray The HSE are currently reviewing HSG67 in particular vehicle inspection pits. This section is larger than previous.
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#11 Posted : 16 March 2009 13:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By Renny Thomson As Graeme posted, pits introdce a number of significant hazards that can be eliminated by the use of vehicle hoists. I used to work in the Haulage industry and spent a lot of time in the vehicle workshops. Pit covers were never used appropriately (if at all), people and vehicles could fall down them, the fire risk was increased, they were prone to flooding or accumulation of waste, lighting was poor, they introduced manual handling problems, they were never the right depth to work comfortably on the vehicle etc. One advantage was that access to the cab/interior of the vehicle was unaffected, which may be an issue for diagnostics or fault finding. The biggest problem when designing the building for use of hoists will be to ensure enough clearance for the hoists to lift a maximum height vehicle.
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#12 Posted : 16 March 2009 15:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By lewes As others have already stated. Pits are a pain and should certainly be avoided in a new build workshop. Although I am led to believe that it does take some courage to get used to working under a HGV on a ramp !!!! We have a depot inside the M25 and frequently have LPG powered vehicles in for inspection. These vehicle nor petrol should be placed over a pit owing to the chemical properties of the fuel. Another thing to consider is that no two people are the same height and some will have to permantly duck whilst some will have to use height aids when working.
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#13 Posted : 16 March 2009 17:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Malcolm Fryer Hi All I work in the Motor Vehicle Repair (MVR) industry and have experience of accidents involving falls into inspection pits. I did try to send Graham the originator of this thread an e-mail directly but the linked hotmail address does not work. I think that I will be able to assist with this matter having had to come up with a solution to this issue. I worked with a company to fabricate pit covering systems which also allow for jacking rails. I have been working with a group on the content of what will be HSG261 and this will include a much improved and extended section on pits and probably include an example of a cover system. I noticed the thread from DRB who works in the bus industry. There has been a related high profile prosecution which is resulting in a more stringent enforcement approach. London Central Bus Company Limited was fined £60,000 and ordered to pay costs of £15,347 at The Central Criminal Courts (the Old Bailey), after the company pleaded guilty to breaching Section 2(1) of the Health and Safety at Work Act etc 1974. Look at the HSE press release HSE/LON/002 30 May 2008 for more details. Whilst pits are undesirable they are in use especially in the HGV & PSV industries but there are engineering answers. The new HSG261 publication will include a hierarchy of control under the heading of Preventing Falls Into Pits. Regards from Malcolm
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#14 Posted : 16 March 2009 18:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Graham Bullough It's over 20 years since I had direct involvement with vehicle hoists, but it may be useful to point out that each make and type usually incorporates some sort of ratchet or other mechanical device by which the part/s which support a vehicle are locked in place on their supports when resting in an elevated position. This would prevent any unexpected descent of the hoist in the event of any failure of wire ropes and/or hydraulic components comprising the lifting system. However, from time to time, when I used to visit garages I did see a design of hoist which had corner posts consisting of giant screws. The corners of the vehicle support assembly incorporated giant nuts which fitted the screws and could travel up and down them when turned simultaneously by means of a motorised chain or other system. By its nature this design struck me as inherently safe, and probably avoided the need for any safety locking system. Perhaps the design also avoided the need for such hoists to be regularly examined, or at least reduced the frequency and complexity of examinations. If I've managed to effectively describe this design, please can anyone say if it is still being made or at least continues in use?
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#15 Posted : 18 March 2009 10:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By Martin Gray Graham Have tried to send a document to you but email has twice bounced back. Please ring. Martin 0117 954 3257
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