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Posted By JWG
Is it acceptable, in this day and age, to allow employee trades-men (and women) to buy their own hand tools and be reimburse by their employer of the cost?
I presume this goes on due to tradition. I can see some advantages of this, one being that they will probably look after them better. But then there's the other side ie suitability, inspection etc.
Any thoughts/advice is gratefully welcome.
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Posted By Bob Youel
An employer should not let employees use poor standard tools and there is case law re the area of employees using their own tools where the employer paid in the end
As tools are fully reclaimable from the tax man any employer not wanting to supply in this day and age belongs to Victorian times
I know of employers who have priced for supplying tools in tender responses and then got the lads to use their own - another profit angle
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Posted By Ron Hunter
And when the practice extends to vibratory and impact tools (as it still does), then the employer will find it very difficult to control HAVS risks.
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan
You ask who should buy hand tools...
As Bob and Ron indicate, there is much more to the question than meets the eye.
My answer to your question would be: an employee who is well informed about well-informed user-centred risk assessment.
As the safety professional present, you are in a good position to produce guidelines on ERGONOMICALLY-DESIGNED handtools and ask each employee you authorise to buy tools to sign either that he/she has read and understood the guidance you provide well enough to safeguard him/herself against injury, or else not buy the tools directly.
And if you have reason to doubt their understanding and competence, you can test them!
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Posted By Steve Cartwright
What's wrong with tradesmen buying their own tools and then be re-embersed for them.
After all they are the ones who are going to be using them, plus they will probably know more about them than you.
I used to be a woodmachinist in a previous life, using cordless drills, routers, circular saws, spindle moulders, jig saws, power drills etc, I knew what work equipment I needed for each job.
Unless you know what you are doing leave it up to them to decide.
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan
Steve
Nobody is stating it is 'wrong' to allow a tradesperson to choose their own tools.
What I (and I believe Bob and Ron) are drawing attention to is that not to adequately assess risks of injury and educate the tradesperson about them is unlikely to adequately comply with an employer's legal responsibility to safeguard the tool-choosing tradesperson from risks of injury.
Whether you believe that it is 'wrong' not to comply with relevant laws is another question.
Personally, I fear failing to provide appropriate information and guidance on choice of tools is likely to be uneconomic and fail to allocate financial resources appropriately.
Perhaps you and tradespersons you know are unusually well-informed and prudent about risks to your safety and it would be as safe as reasonably practicable to make an exception in your case?
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Posted By Chris Jerman
Is the question here whether hand tools per se are inherently poor and we're debating liability OR that our people will go out and find cheaper, inferior tools (in our name) and suffer injury?
If you open an account with a local tool firm and set up a credit for each employee, you can control the quality of what they buy. There is a very valid reason for allowing choice of tools over just giving them a box each and saying 'that's your lot'. I found that the tradesmen would actually 'pool' their budget and buy certain specialist tools to share. Not everyone needs a set of gear pullers everyday after all. You can also get mobile tool specialists to visit your premises (snap-on - Britool etc). Or you give them a catalogue, they pick - you order. Remember the question was about hand tools - not powered hand tools. I agree with a previous post that in essence to pay for highly skilled labour and then not pay for top quality tools would be like running a Ferrari on remoulds. Having said that I have met companies who have made fitters PAY for all of their own tools.
CJ
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Posted By Frank E. Davidson
No they are not fully re-claimable, well not for all trades. For Electricians there is a tax allowance agreed between Select/SJIB (possibly JIB too) and HMR&C. It's not a lot - a couple of hundred pounds and goes nowhere near covering the annual cost of tools. Clothing allowance is something like 30 pounds.
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Posted By GeoffB4
That's an interesting comment Frank, that electricians get through well over £200 of hand tools a year.
Is that through loss or is it wear and tear or both?
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Posted By Mark Ellis
Hello all, surely the question is not who pays for the tools but are they suitable and are the employees competent to use them? contractors frequently change tradesmen, sometimes daily. tradesmen usually have their own hand/power tools.
Do you you not think it far more important that the employer ensures the tradesmen are competent.
This simply does not happen in housebuilding, especially where pricework is concerned-you can either make it pay or you cant...Mark
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