Posted By Malcolm Hogarth We often read that young persons are prohibited from using dangerous equipment (such as gravity feed slicing machines in kitchens). Notwithstanding the requirements of the Management Regulations and PUWER where it states that Young Persons can operate machinery under training or supervision etc; is there a definitive answer on whether such activities are actually prohibited, or is it down to Risk Assessment? Many thanks, Malcolm

Posted By Alan Hoskins Hi Malcolm, Again not a definitive response, but how would apprentices learn their trade without operating machinery under supervision? When I was an apprentice (the Woodworking Machinery Regulations were in force I think...) I operated all the machines in the joinery workshop. Whether this was legal or not I do not know - it was pre-HSAWA. Alan

Posted By The toecap As far as i know machine users must be trained and competent. In theory they could be 10 years old

Posted By steven bentham Malcolm A number of points for you to consider: AGE 'Young person' - usually means under 18 years; 'Child' - usually means under 16 The legislation is designed to give greater protection to children and young persons from hazardous machines. MACHINERY Some machines are still dangerous when guarded to the required standards. A good example is a circular saw; buckets of fingers lost on guarded machines! Young persons during training to be a joiner, may be trained to use circular saws etc as part of their 'training scheme'. Children at a school should never be allowed on circular saws. A young person under training to be a joiner is learning to use a machine under close supervision to become a tradesman. Circular saws at schools are operated by teachers or technical staff (hopefully one of them may have been trained!!) 'Machinery guarding & use by young persons' standards were applied to a wide range of industrial and commercial machines. Here the regulator has decided which machines are dangerous and resticted usage - with good reason. OTHER RISK GROUPS Someone over 18 years, but untrained may get seriously injured on a wide range of machines, hence the requirement for training and supervision for all ages - with good reason Usually, the different industry groups or HSE have very good guidance on this topic. Keep it in perspective, at 19 years, you can walk (or run)with your rifle in Afghanistan! Y One of the other postings relating to . . KEEPING YOUR SHOES ON WHEN ON THE SCALES FOR HEALTH & SAFETY REASONS! When I was at the hospital being weighed I was asked to keep my shoes on, I never new I was at such risk of being injured on a set of scales AND I think of the machines I have used and scaffolding I have climbed!!!

Posted By Ian_P Brian beat me to it, and hit the nail on the head. PUWER 'replaced' a whole raft of regulations such as the Woodworking Machines Regulations 1974, The Agriculture (Circular Saws) Regulations 1952 and, as mentioned, The Prescribed Dangerous Machines order 1964. (see http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si1998/19982306.htm for full list) These older pieces of law were very prescriptive with some of them setting age limits for allowing use on machines. They were all revoked with the introdution of PUWER. This is risk assessment based and it is up to the duty holder to decide what level of experience, training, competence etc. is required. The old age limits are still quoted, and enforced, however in many industries. Whether this is due to them being considered good practice or the failure to conduct an up to date risk assessment is debateable!!