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#1 Posted : 03 January 2008 09:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By John J There seems to be an increasing number of accident Christmas top tens that list xx number of people a year die from testing 9v batteries on their tongues. Is their any evidence for this and what would be the mechanism of death? John
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#2 Posted : 03 January 2008 09:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lilian McCartney Happy New Year everyone, when I mentioned the battery 'deaths' a girl at work said that she had done this and so had a lot of her friends - others hadn't heard of testing the battery with your tongue. I guess the deaths might have been because of other factors, heart defect, standing n metal or something at same time. Lilian
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#3 Posted : 03 January 2008 10:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By holmezy John, I have questioned this claim many times, usually over a pint or 2 with other sceptical people! Most people I spoke to could remember doing this at school at some point. Others remember being coerced into doing it by the Physics teacher, probably in the same lesson that involved the class holding hands and forming a circuit attached to a Van Der Graaf generator and seeing everyone suffer the "tingles" and "erect hair". A Doctor (medical not scientific) friend of mine did tell us that it would be "theoretically" possible for a person to die from the current generated by the 9v battery, however, they would have to have a pre existing, but not necesarily diagnosed, heart condition. The current could "theorectically" upset the natural rythym of the heart to such an extent that it stopped beating. The majority of these "theoretically" susceptable people would re-start their heart naturally when the current is removed and happily recover with no long term effects. A minority of susceptable people may have trouble "kick starting" their heart and may suffer the ultimate fate. Unfortunately, the Doctor couldnt offer any proof in terms of numbers etc. So, it could and may happen, but then again it might be a myth. I'd be interested to find out though. Sorry not been any great help, just offered another theory that may or may not be true. Holmezy
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#4 Posted : 03 January 2008 10:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter I am not a medic so I fail to see how a current passing through a couple of centimetres of tongue can affect the heart; can anyone enlighten me? Paul
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#5 Posted : 03 January 2008 10:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jane Blunt I think you have hit the nail on the head there, Paul. Electricity will find the path of least resistance, which is clearly through the tongue and its wet surface. I cannot believe that any electric current of any significance or any potential difference of any significance will reach the heart. Jane
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#6 Posted : 03 January 2008 13:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By garyh Aw come on. This is so obviously an urban myth! You should all hang your heads if you think it could be possible! As was said above how would the current track across your heart (which it needs do to cause Ventricular Fibrillation)? It will travel from one terminal to the other using your saliva as the conducting medium. End of.
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#7 Posted : 03 January 2008 22:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Rich E I've heard this a number of times and it appears on lots of 'lists' of obscure ways to die. The question of the shock affecting the heart is probably a bit of a red herring. A more plausible explanation is one that you could swallow your tongue and choke to death. Whether anyone has ever actually died I have never found out, but it would only take one death to start the story, and the most unlikely things do happen to people all the time.
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#8 Posted : 04 January 2008 08:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steve Derby Hi all I really wouldn't like to comment on the myth status of this issue, or on any actual mechanism of injury, however there is a link between the throat (pharynx etc) and the heart. The Vagus nerve acts upon both areas of the body. There are medical techniques that use pressure to the throat to alter the heart rate. That's as far as my knowledge of anatomy goes though folks. Steve
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#9 Posted : 04 January 2008 08:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By AlB Came accross this on the internet. Makes sense in this context: "In 1999 a US Navy safety publication describes injuries incurred while doing don't's. One page described the fate of a sailor playing with a multimeter in an unauthorized manner. He was curious about the resistance level of the human body. He had a Simpson 260 multimeter, a small unit powered by a 9-volt battery. That may not seem powerful enough to be dangerous… but it can be deadly in the wrong hands. The sailor took a probe in each hand to measure his bodily resistance from thumb to thumb. But the probes had sharp tips, and in his excitement he pressed his thumbs hard enough against the probes to break the skin. Once the salty conducting fluid known as blood was available, the current from the multimeter travelled right across the sailor's heart, disrupting the electrical regulation of his heartbeat. He died before he could record his Ohms."
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#10 Posted : 04 January 2008 08:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By AlB And this explains HOW: "How, you might ask, with only a 9V battery? Easy. One of the "rules of thumb" that the Navy teaches is the 1-10-100 rule of current. This rule states that 1mA of current through the human body can be felt, 10mA of current is sufficient to make muscles contract to the point where you cannot let go of a power source, and 100mA is sufficient to stop the heart. Let's look at Ohm's law. Ohm's law (for DC systems - I will not discuss AC here) is written as E=IR, where E is voltage in volts, I is current in Amps, and R is resistance in Ohms. When we did the experiment in the electrical safety class to determine our body's resistance, we found a resistance of 500K Ohms. Using 9V and 500K Ohms in the equation, we come up with a current of 18 microAmps, below the "feel" threshold of 1mA. However, removing the insulation of skin from our curious sailor here, the resistance through the very good conducting electrolytes of the body is sharply lower. Around 100 ohms, in fact, resulting in a current of 90mA - sufficient to stop our sailor's heart and kill him."
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#11 Posted : 04 January 2008 09:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By garyh But again, I ask, how does the current track to the heart when the battery terminals on the tongue are 2cm apart, bathed in a nice electrolyte (saliva)?
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#12 Posted : 04 January 2008 09:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By AlB Cuts and grazes on the tounge perhaps? Blood will be a far better conductor than saliva. Of course I could be way off the mark and talkin out of my a**e here!
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#13 Posted : 04 January 2008 09:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By GeoffB4 garyh - we're obviously in a minority! I find it difficult to believe that this is being discussed seriously.
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#14 Posted : 04 January 2008 09:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By John J Ruling out the heart, which I find hard to see a mechanism linked to the tongue, can a 9v battery cause any other issues. If their is an issue, and I'm not convinced their is, I would suggest its more likely that somebody has accidentally choked on a battery while allegedly testing it. Anybody from an A and E department?
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#15 Posted : 04 January 2008 10:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kevin Coghill I've just taken the 9V battery out of my Xmas radio controlled Dalek (yes it is mine!) and in a moment of boredom diced with death by licking the battery. The fact that I am still able to type this reponse might suggest something.... I am now off to put said battery back and carry on "exterminating" the cat!
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#16 Posted : 04 January 2008 13:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jim Walker This is just the sort of rubbish you get with a generally scientifically illiterate society we have become. People half understand "electricity" and know it can effect the heart in some way. put 2 & 2 together and come out with half cocked theories. Next we will be hearing about healing properties of crystals!!
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#17 Posted : 04 January 2008 13:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Martin Forbes Im just speculating here but here i go anyway, Ok electricity travels to earth via the path of least resistance. Im guessing you all know that. What if you are touching a metal pole with your hand and place a battery on your tongue. Wouldnt the current travel from your tongue pass your heart along your arm and travel down the pole? Dunno, i mean ive heard of ppl dying while putting on their socks also. It may be that the deaths are not caused by the battery itself, but the battery on the tongue was the cause. I.e. person sticks a battery on their tongus, jumps back in shock, trips over something and falls on their neck?
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#18 Posted : 04 January 2008 13:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By John J Just to reiterate that the lists don't specify heart failure as the cause of death. The only reason I asked the question was because it has appeared in several Christmas/yearly accident lists and with the breadth of experience there is on this website I thought somebody may be able to answer the question, John
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#19 Posted : 04 January 2008 14:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By garyh Once again, the presence of any earthing or conducting surface is irrelevant, the battery terminals are 2cm apart and the current will much more readily pass from one to the other rather than travel 1 meter plus through your body!! I hope some of you people don't get asked to do risk assessments re batteries. good job there is no chance of Jeremy Clarkson reading this...................
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#20 Posted : 04 January 2008 14:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Bellis Just a thought -and I dont really know the answer, would it make any difference if the person testing them had a pacemaker fitted?
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#21 Posted : 04 January 2008 14:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By garyh See above - the answer logically must be no, since if the current can't track across the heart it can't affect the pacemaker unless it was in the tongue!!
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#22 Posted : 04 January 2008 15:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Brando Kev got a Dalek!!!!! Way to go. I got one of those dragon fly toys that flaps around rather lamely before nose diving into the fire place. Any way - how bored do you have to be before you start licking batteries? Brando
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#23 Posted : 04 January 2008 15:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze Perhaps while testing it on their tongue they accidentally swallowed and choked on it? Like GaryH, I'm struggling to think of an electrical reason, so the answer must be more obvious, or it's a made up statistic. I can see it now... After too much Port and Christmas pud, Kev starts sucking his Dalek power pack to disprove something he read on a safety website when - Bang! Some distant family member sneaks up behind him with a party popper, startling Kev who then chokes and an urban myth is born. (Note - no actual H&S Practitioners were harmed during the creation of this hypothetical scenario.)
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#24 Posted : 04 January 2008 16:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By garyh I didn't get a Dalek but I did get a USB desktop drum kit from father chrtistmas........
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#25 Posted : 05 January 2008 08:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By jom I can't believe this is being discussed at all. Kevin put this stupid myth to bed by walking the talk. Go, Kev. I've got my 9v battery on my tongue and I'm fi
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#26 Posted : 05 January 2008 18:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By MP Grayson ?e? f???t??? e?? e??a? a?????? ? ???. ???s?µ?p??? t? µ??? ?at? t? d????e?a t?? ?at??t?s?? H/S. ???? ??? ??a t? µ??? 3 a????p?? p?? pe?a????? ???e ?t?? ?a? t? ???s?µ?p??? ?? pa??de??µa e??? as?µa?t?? ???d????. ?p?µ???? ?aµ?a a???????s? t?? ???d???? de? ?p???e? st? ??s? e??as?a? µ?? p?? ?a??pte? t? d?ad??as?a 9v t?? µpata??e?. ??? ?e??ste t?? ????e? ?a? t??? ??????? ?t? ? d???es? t?t???? st???e??? sta ????? ?d?st??s?? ?a e??a? s??t?µa pa????µ?. ???µ? ep???!
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#27 Posted : 05 January 2008 18:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By MP Grayson Eh. Sorry moderators, I seem to be having an issue with one of my computers. Could you please ditch my last post above please. Its all question marks and squiggles. Thanks. For the rest, just a heads up. Don't forget that it will soon be illegal to dump your 9v batteries in the bin when you've all finished getting yer tongues tizzled. Crack on.
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