Posted By Mark Bywater I have just come across a final exit door at a company that we have just become responsible for which is in a warehouse environment. Basically, the personal door leads down about 6 steps to a large iron concertina door which has a lock. The key for the lock is kept in a break glass at the side of this door. In the event of a fire / other emergency, about 4 people would use this exit. Question: Is it acceptable as a fire exit? My gut feeling was probably, yes, due to the key being always available, the door is in constant use anyway (always unlocked during normal working hours) and the number of evacuees is small. Your thoughts please. Thanks, Mark

Posted By Edward Shyer Mark as you say the door is unlocked during normal working conditions this i do not believe this is a problem as such. I would be more concerned about whether or not there would be difficulty in the opening of a large iron door. Is everyone who would need to exit through this door able to easily open it. Regards Ted

Posted By alan brotherton Anyone who puts an emergency escape key in a box on the wall has obviously never considered, (in their fire risk assesment)persons blinded by smoke, stumbling around in the dark in a panic situation easily locating the box and obtaining the key and then finding the tiny keyhole to insert it into (that is if they have not injured their hands in the fire and are able to do this). However we do see this type of system in place which is beyond me when so many safer alternatives are available. I think also that the type of door you mention should be regularly examined for ease of opening, and clearing/ lubricating of any tracks and hinges etc. and a clear responsibility placed on someone to ensure it is unlocked immediately the building is occupied each day.

Posted By GeoffB4 The door is always unlocked when staff are on site and is in constant use. The key is held in a break glass box nearby. I'm absolutely fine with that. Talk about maintence and opening such as door etc has already been dealt with by the initial contributor saying the door is in constant use. Any problems would be immediately spotted.

Posted By GeoffB4 Why not Ron?

Posted By Crim Roller shutter doors are not considered for means of escape for many reasons. This door, however, is always open during working hours so it would be acceptable providing that someone is responsible for checking the availability of the fire exit at the start of each shift. Checks should be recorded in writing and management should also check that the checks are being made and recorded. There is always a conflict between security and fire safety but there is always a solution.

Posted By pluto I have personal experience of this arrangement NOT working, including massive rows with the occupier stating key is ALWAYS available only to re-visit two days later and find said key missing! Although you could argue a case based on door always being unlocked during occupied hours (no security issues there then?), I would strongly recommend that you replace it with one of the dozens of better solutions on the market. The sliding door is also a further problem but for the limited numbers, (assuming all can operate door), I would reluctantly accept it.

Posted By Ron Hunter GeoffB4 - you asked why I don't consider the arrangement described acceptable. A similar situation arose at one of the premises I advise. On two of my visits, the door had not been unlocked. In other respects, the "arrangement" did not work outwith 'normal' hours and cleaners were placed at risk. We have to move with the times on these sort of things I think?

Posted By TBC Some great advice been given here. I knew of two occasions when on my inspection the keys did not resemble the one in the box and indeed when tested - did not fit. This was quite a few years ago now and in both cases the doors were only used in emergencies. The owners had not put in the correct keys because they were afraid of loss of goods etc. I know your case is different because the doors are in use during the day, but for others one to look out for.

Posted By Bob Shillabeer A bit puzzled, if the door is open such a lot how is it locked? Why is there a lock and key in use? How do they open the door without using the key? How often is the key checked to ensure it is the right one? Take a simple view and check how the door is normally used, if it is part of a roller shutter system, look for a new escape route.

Posted By chrisc0v0c I know this is somewhat a dead subject but we have a site we have some works to carry out on and the issue is that the landlord has the following situation. On a newly occupied area (a large warehouse) the rear external fire exit which also serves another warehouse containing 3 double leaf doors exiting to said route has at its end a door requiring "key access". The said key is in fact not "even" in the locality of the door, it is within a key box at each door leading on to the external route. We are upgrading the emergency lighting on the route and we ourselves got stuck at the respective door due to no prior knowledge of the key situation. We are trying to find a solution with the landlord, he realises the "key" issue but the trouble is because the route is "external" and the otherside of the fire exit door leads to a "less" secure fire exit walkway, leaving a key box at the door or using any other non-key action only hardware compromises his building security. Before anyone jumps in with "sod security, lives are all that counts etc!", the landlord if he has no choice will do what is required, but to throw it out there does anyone have another solution? I know a solution could be a fire alarm link using retaining magnets but I am always concerned about the need for the exit in situations not related to fire or if an incident occured where an individual somehow, perhaps as we did managed to be trapped outside for any other reason!?! Any feedback? Thanks in advance...

Posted By GeoffB4 You shouldn't have steps leading to an emergency exit. Have I missed something? Don't most premises with more than one floor have steps leading to emergency exits?

Posted By ScotsAM The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 P14(2) (d) emergency doors must open in the direction of escape; (f) emergency doors must not be so locked or fastened that they cannot be easily and immediately opened by any person who may require to use them in an emergency; This would suggest a single or simple action in order to open the door. My gut reaction is to say that unlocking a door is unsuitable, especially as the key isn't in the lock in the first place.

Posted By Steve Cartwright Mark If I was you I would contact your local Fire Authority, because you will not get a straight answer on this forum. In the past I have had similar situations as yours in different regions of the country and the local Fire Authorities all said the same. Providing the door is unlocked when employees are working and it can easily be opened then it will be fine. If a key is required to open the door providing the key is easily accessable to all, again it will be fine. No ifs, buts, what about this or that, have you got this or that, if my anti had ***** she'd be my uncle and all the other rubbish people come out with. Your local Fire Authority will tell you. Steve

Posted By Steve Cartwright PMW If you want to ask that question you should start another thread. Steve

Posted By W. Findlay Good Morning ScotsAM response regarding the RRO is correct, in addition, I would direct you to BS 9999 Section 14.3 parts e & f and also Section 16.5.2. and BS EN 179. Hope this helps. Regards W

Posted By Mark Bywater To the IOSH moderators, As the "owner" of this thread and having had sufficient answers over a year ago, may I kindly request that this thread is locked as it appears to be drifting somewhat, and a further thread has been started to pick up that different topic. Kind regards, Mark