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#1 Posted : 14 January 2008 12:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jacquie Wills
Does anyone know of a good reference source for information on the synergistic effect of chemicals please? My basic knowledge of chemistry tells me that certain chemicals should not be mixed with other substances but this is not good enough for the work I am currently undertaking. Is there anything out there that quantifies the problem? I have found section 10 - Stability and Reactivity - of most Material Safety Data Sheets completely useless.
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#2 Posted : 14 January 2008 12:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By David Whaley
Jacquie,

Not being a chemist myself, whenever I have an issue I am fortunate in being able to consult a chemist. However, if you have not already obtain it from HSE Books, there is guidance in EH40/2005 on mixtures, you should also down load the up to-date version of Table 1.

Hope this helps.

David
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#3 Posted : 14 January 2008 16:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mike
Table 1 is even more up to date today. A few missing vapour ppm to mg/m3 conversions were added on 11 January.
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#4 Posted : 15 January 2008 07:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Jacquie,

Part 10 of a MSDS does not deal with synergism; it deals with chemical incompatibility (i.e. don't mix A with B - it goes bang!).

Synergism is the ability of a chemical to increase the toxicological effects of a substance, to greater than the sum of the affects of the two chemicals if applied independently.

Regards Adrian Watson
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#5 Posted : 15 January 2008 07:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Jacquie,

Part 10 of a MSDS does not deal with synergism; it deals with chemical incompatibility (i.e. don't mix A with B - it goes bang!).

Synergism is the ability of a chemical to increase the toxicological effects of a substance, to greater than the sum of the affects of the two chemicals if applied independently. (i.e. E > 1 + 1

Regards Adrian Watson
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#6 Posted : 15 January 2008 07:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Jacquie,

Part 10 of a MSDS does not deal with synergism; it deals with chemical incompatibility (i.e. don't mix A with B - it goes bang!).

Synergism is the ability of a chemical to increase the toxicological effects of a substance, to greater than the sum of the affects of the two chemicals if applied independently. (i.e. E > 1 + 1)

Regards Adrian Watson
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#7 Posted : 15 January 2008 08:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Jacquie

The problem with synergistic effects is that they are not known until identified some time after the event, ie there have been deaths and injury as a result. I do not personally know of a single book or other text which deals with the problem for all known effects. The HSE document does provide some guidance to obtain the OEL for mixtures but these do not necessarily reflect synergies that can occur. Having said that one can assume that potentially tobacco smoke has synergistic effects with many inhaled substances.


The only real solution is to reduce all exposures the the lowest level- which is actually what COSHH is all about.

Bob
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#8 Posted : 15 January 2008 09:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stephen D. Clarke
Jacquie,
Try the following websites - synergism can work in both ways increasing or decreasing the toxicity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synergy

http://consumerlawpage.com/article/gulfwar.shtml

http://library.findlaw.com/1997/Jun/1/131238.html

http://www.nanowerk.com/spotlight/spotid=2445.php

Steve
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#9 Posted : 15 January 2008 09:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Phil Grace
Careful guys.....

Synergism only produces an effect that is greater than the sum of the individual effects (dictionary definition).

Synergism does not result in a lessening in effect.

However, synergism is not the issue under consideration when one is considering the effects of mixtures. There has long been concern that occupational health standards consider substances in isolation - whereas in real life scenarios the employee is often exposed to more than one potentially harmful substance. There is limited knowledge on the effects of mixtures. In the USA, some years ago, there was guidance on a method of reducing limits when there was multiple exposures. Not sure whether is is still current.

Phil
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#10 Posted : 15 January 2008 10:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Phil

Agreed but the question posed by Jacquie was about synergism - I treated the MSDS reference as a cry from the heart that such documents do not provide this information.

The question of mixtures is a red herring in all of this.

Bob
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