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Posted By Derek Williams
Hi all,
Due to a trained first aid person leaving the company we are at present operating a night shift with 10 people and no first aid cover other than a responsible person designated to call for assistance if required, an employee has volunteered to go on a first aid course next week and I have provisionally enrolled him, however the works manager say's that we could be too busy to allow him the time to attend, I believe that we are or could be contravening the law.Any views appreciated.
Derek.
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Posted By Dave Wilson
Its up to the employer to decide what his first aid arrangements should be.
This will depend on the 'risks' involved in the work place, higher risk areas should have fully qualified and lower risk areas could only have 'Appointed persons' only.
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Posted By David Bannister Derek, the law regarding first aid provision is generally to assess your needs and then provide what is necessary. The answer will be different for each situation and depends upon many variables including: exposure to harm, severity of likely injuries, availability of external assistance, vulnerability of personnel, past history. In a low-risk environment where external assistance is readily available it may be perfectly acceptable to rely on an Appointed Person to summon assistance plus a box of plasters. The Approved Code of Practice to the First Aid Regs gives indications of cover needed. http://www.hse.gov.uk/firstaid/legislation.htmBe prepared to wait forever for the HSE site to respond.
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Posted By Derek Williams
Hi again,
We operate a press shop and as a result the consequencies of an accident could be severe, I don't wish to tempt providence but our accident rate is very good, it amounts to nicks and bruises and the occasional back problem, Hospital assistance is about 25 minutes away.
Derek.
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Posted By Tabs
To be honest, the most recent first aid at work course I went on didn't teach many skills that would apply to a press shop accident. Mostly we were taught to call for an ambulance and wait.
I think the Appointed Person course covers direct pressure and elevation doesn't it?(resuscitation is taught, I know).
Pretty much everything else can wait for the ambulance.
Being a night shift, one would expect the ambulance response to be quite quick (unless around chucking-out time).
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Posted By David Bannister
Derek, the competent H&S advisor for your employer is in the best situation to provide leadership here. You may well get a range of opinions expressed on this forum but without specific knowledge of your site and its risks these should be taken as merely uninformed opinion.
Sorry to be evasive but it really depends on your risks.
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Posted By Adam Worth
"To be honest, the most recent first aid at work course I went on didn't teach many skills that would apply to a press shop accident. Mostly we were taught to call for an ambulance and wait."
I don't believe that!
If it was a HSE approved First aid at work course it would have included CPR, Managing the scene, Control of severe bleeding, treatment of shock to name but a few!!!
I would contact the HSE ASAP and report the course provider!
As for treating a Press injury, it doesn't matter how the injury arose it's how you deal with it!
The FAW system needs a review; I doubt you're the only person who doesn't feel they could manage an incident after a 5 day course?
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Posted By Tabs
"If it was a HSE approved First aid at work course it would have included CPR, Managing the scene, Control of severe bleeding, treatment of shock to name but a few!!!"
You caught me there ... I must admit to thinking that the Appointed Person course would cover these points, but after looking it up on the HSE site, I see this isn't necessarily true. Sorry, the AP courses I used to co-ordinate did cover these aspects.
"As for treating a Press injury, it doesn't matter how the injury arose it's how you deal with it!"
Yes, that was my main point, the FAW course doesn't give skills specific to treatment of individual types of injury any more - beyond the direct/indirect pressure and elevation. So if he was expecting to be taught how to deal with a crushed hand, he would be disappointed.
"The FAW system needs a review; I doubt you're the only person who doesn't feel they could manage an incident after a 5 day course?"
Sorry? Where does this leap of logic(?) come from? After 20+ years of *regular* first aid experience (I have used more first aid kits than I'd like to recall) I would feel confident where most would feel sick I think.
I think I have to correct my first posting and say that if the AP course covers the basics, it should be enough - but yes, it depends on the subjects covered.
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Posted By Adam Worth
Sorry - didn't mean to leap to conclusions, I miss read your post :)
I just know people who attended their FAWs a few years ago and fear that they wouldn't know what to do if a situation arose.
This doesn't apply to those of us who use our skills regularly but I feel yearly refreshers are going to start to appear.
Didn't mean to offend; my apologies.
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Check out the Regulations covering first aid at work and follow them as a minimum. It is often hard to get people to train as first aiders so make the most of each one you get. Tell your works manager (in writting) that the decision to forgo the training may lead the company into a non compliant situation. You need to assess your first aid needs to ensure they are adequate for the circumstances within the work site, this should be reviewed periodically to ensure your adequately covered. Don't forget to check your first aid equipment as well to ensure you are covered for any specific risks you may have which requires specific equipment.
Denerally the minimumstandard as set out in the Regulations is where the risk is low,eg, shops, offices, libraries, where there are fewer than 50 persons working at least one appointed person is adequate. Between 50 and 100 at least one first aid at work person is needed. At medium risk locations these figures are reduced to fewer than 20 at least one appointed person, with 20to 100 ate least one FAAW person for every 50employees orpart thereof and where there are more than 100 one additionalfirst aider forevery 100 employed. Where the risk is higher such ason construction sites,in slaugther house, chemical manufacturer or extensive work with dangerous machines or sharpinstruments the figures are much more stringent and shouldbe fewer than 5 person an appointed person, between 5 and 50at least one first aider more than 50people one additionalfirst aider for every 50 employees. Where the work has a specific hazard at least one first aider shouldbe trained in specific emergency action. Take a look at table 1 in the First Aid at Work Approved Code of Practice.
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Posted By Tabs
No offence taken Adam.
I used to run workshops for people where we would discuss first aid and practice bandages and management etc., so I know that a yearly refresher would be handy for some.
For others that actually use the skills, it could become tiresome to have to hit target dates (my job often interferes with the best-laid plans). So I would hope there will be a realistic window (2 months minimum) of re qualification.
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Posted By Dave Wilson
Appointed persons courses DO NOT have to be undertaken by an authorised HSE Training provider, anyone can do them, weird eh!
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