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#1 Posted : 04 February 2008 20:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By Exdeeps Evening, This is just for my own curiosity, hence putting it here and not in the careers forum. I've noticed lots of enquiries about quals etc and how to find work in Australia. Does anyone have any experience of the USA? I know the H&S system is in many ways quite different, such as more codified etc, but how much extra effort would be required to get a job as a safety professional in the Land of the Free? Another thought, what level of personal insurance would a safety officer need to carry assuming the tales of ambulance chasing lawyers etc are to be believed. As I say, just curious, not really thinking about it, Jim
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#2 Posted : 05 February 2008 15:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Packham We looked at doing some work in the USA and even exhibited at two AIHA conferences. Unfortunately, we found the attitude there was not really conducive to our obtaining business for our rather specialised consultancy. To put it bluntly, the whole concern appeared to be to ensure that the employer was complying with the OSHA stated exposure limits for chemicals - so that under the Workmen's Compensation Act they could not be sued! Beyond that there appeared to be little motivation. One major employer actually said to us that he found it cheaper to pay the workmen's compensation than to implement health and safety measures! When we took the original decision, we were advised to set up a UK based limited company with minimal assets and to conduct all business through this, we being employer by the company at a nominal salary. The reasons should be obvious. Needless to say, we now have stopped attempting to promote our services in the USA. The UK and Europe are much more receptive. Chris
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#3 Posted : 05 February 2008 18:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ashley Wood I used to work on the fire advisory side of things in the US. Not any longer. The cost of PI in the states is huge and should be considering that you could be sued for up to £200 million! They are so litigation adverse that they will stick with fire suppression systems that are not up to date and have proven to be ineffectual compared to modern equivalents. Why? 'The old system has lots of approvals', yes but it does not work as it should..'but it has lots of approvals', yes but there are better things available that do not have as many approvals but work better and have been used in anger in Europe and the rest of the world for the past 15 years! 'yes, but the old system has lots of approvals'. And it goes on and on until you either want to shoot them or shoot yourself! So to summarise, if you are insane enough to want to work there take out a $50k a year PI policy, make sure that you have been involved in your chosen field for at least 500 years and have every H&S qualification under the sun, can demonstrate that you have a vast customer base of US companies, demonstrate that you know every code and standard that has ever been written in the US. Then and only then you may just have a chance. Good luck. Nurse, please is it time for my evening pills now and could you undo these straps on this coat as they are starting to hurt....
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#4 Posted : 05 February 2008 22:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By Pete48 Exdeeps, the first thing is that the cultural and social differences are immense. The basic technical H&S stuff is still the same of course, the legal system is quite different, the language is not as straightforward as it might seem. So to quote an American icon, "it is civilisation Jim but not as we know it". So you would have to ask yourself, why would a US company want to employ me? Then there is the whole question of visas. Unless things have changed in the past few years, it is harder to pass through the eye of a needle if you are looking for work employed by and paid by an American company in America. Most who go for employment have been transferred by their US employer from positions here in the EU.(I think there is a minimum period of a year or two in employment before transfer to the States is allowed) I had a couple of stints out there more than 20 years ago and it was a very interesting experience on both occasions; however, like others I was surprisingly happy to get away from it on both occasions. My brother has lived and worked out there for the last 25 years, he is now fluent in Spanish as well as US English! He misses those famous baked beans, decent tea and a particular brand of high street underpants. It is the little things that make the difference after all you see! I cannot really help with cross qualifications and acceptance of same. I doubt the vocational ones would count for much unless supported by academic qualifications such as first degrees.
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#5 Posted : 06 February 2008 10:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By David Bannister I have previously worked for American companies and participated in several audits of US facilities, along with American colleagues. My knowledge, understanding & experience were all appreciated by them when here in EU but my ideas of protection being based on risk exposure for US plants was alien. Quite simply, "if it ain't specified in the relevant OSHA Code, it ain't worth doin'" Breaches of the Codes are subject to set fines so it was easy to do the cost/penalty calculation. The Codes are very specific although very extensive. I also believe that UK employers (generally) have a genuine desire to make work safe and healthy whilst my (limited) exposure to US employment practices does not inspire me to want to work in an American factory. The manuals are comprehensive, the reality differs. Based on my experience it would be very difficult for a professional UK H&S practitioner to make the change due to this fundamental difference. The annoyance, frustration and ultimate waste of effort would prove too much for me to deal with.
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#6 Posted : 07 February 2008 21:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By Exdeeps Well, what can I say? An oddball question that generated some very detailed but interesting answers. Thank you very much. As I said in the original post, I am not thinking about moving to the States, just curious to find out what the practical differences are, Cheers, Jim
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#7 Posted : 08 February 2008 02:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By Anthony Hill Greetings, For my sins I have to work in the USA frequently from my base in Canada. Once you manage to get past the goons on the "homeland security" desks who treat Brits to the SSSS codes (those who go there know what I mean). You will find the American people generally very friendly and helpful. However the USA safety system is very strictly codified and relies upon rigid compliance with OSHA to avoid the Lawyers. Lateral thinking is not generally welcomed and to be properly accepted you will need to get into the ASSE and take the CSP exams. To get a green card is the biggest hurdle so unless you can find a sponsor forget it. The USA safety system seems to be dominated by outfits such as Bechtel etc who excel in forest depleting paperwork for the most trivial matters and, for your reference, the patronising and imbecilic STOP and STARRT systems are regarded as cutting edge. In summary, AVOID AVOID!
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