Rank: Guest 
|
Posted By SARA TAYLOR
Can anyone tell me if Abrasive Wheels training is only necessary for changing the discs over or if it is the whole thing, operating, using guards etc?
Do you require a certificate to prove you have had training or is in-house training from an exerienced personnel (staff) suitable?
and also where i can find the legislation that states that users must have been trained and retain certificates for its operation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Mitch
Sara,
It was the Abrasive Wheels Act 1970 but I'm sure this has been superseded by the PUWER regs, do a quick search it was covered in a recent thread.
Regards
Mitch
PS 3 of our guys received a basic training course last year at the local Tech College.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By SARA TAYLOR
Hi Thanks Mitch
yes it's now covered by PUWER but it doesnt really tell you a lot.
do you know what i mean, do you have to have a certificate? that kinda thing...
my employers are reluctant to do things if they think its pointless they want me to come up with an answer as to whether it is stated anywhere that this course must be undertaken.. money saving!!!!
thanks
Sara
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Alan Nicholls
Hi Sara
As above PUWER Regulation 19 codes of practice, refers to persons supervising managing and using equipment, are required to receive adequate training for the purposes of health and safety. HSG17 also gives info you need, Safety in the use of abrasive wheels.
If you have someone trained in the mounting and setting of abrasive wheels, then you can use them to train others in the safe use of said equipment. If you don't, get several people trained then train other internally.
Then you must record the training given, you must also maintain the equipment and record the maintenance carried out. All about competence, with a paper trail.
Hope this helps.
Regards Alan N
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Graham H
Hi Sara
It may be wise to inform your employers that "money saving" is sometimes a two edged sword, if an accident occurs and a claim is put in who will do the following
1. Look for evidence of competency(apart from the injury claims lawyer & possibly the HSE)
2. Investigate the accident
3. Replace the injured operative
4. Phone the family to tell them an Injury has occurred (and sort the industrial relations)
5. complete the F2508 and submit it to RIDDOR
6. Then Panic and search for suitable training
7. then look at increased insurance costs
8. Loss of reputation
9. Loss of business
10.Loss of manpower and the cost of the Investigation in terms of time and salaries, compensation, possibly fines etc.
Ask your employers if THEY can find any H&S Legislation that does not include "information, instruction & training" & "competent persons".
I have investigated 4 accidents involving abrasive wheels in the last 18 months including 2 cut faces, 1 finger injury with severe tendon damage & 1 guy who had set alight to his flame proof overalls whilst cutting bar on an oil refinery, how would your employer explain that one away!(the guy who attempted to be a human candle being the only one who had not received any training) Having trained abrasive wheels courses and worked for companies who take a re-active approach to H&S and training, and others who have a pro-active approach I can assure you that the ones with the pro-active approach have more success, a happier work force & more business. In my experience the guys who work for your employer will give 2 reactions to abrasive wheel training
1. "why should I do this I've been using these things for years"
2. When they have completed the training they will say "I didn't realise that". This is not a monkey for your back, the time you have spent looking up information etc would have probably paid for someone to be trained! (enough of my rant) "Furnish" your employer with information on the costs of NOT acting on your recommendations and pass back the monkey, suggest that you enquire about the cost of suitable training, the competency of the training organisation and whoever you call will I'm sure will speak to your employer direct if you (or they) wish. Hope this is of some use.
Good Luck
Graham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By ChrisLFAnderson
Sara
You ask for specifics:
PUWER 92 stripped out all of the Abrasive wheels regulations 1970 except for the training requirements for persons who change (mount) wheels and the training syllabus. Only trained persons could change wheels but any Tom, Dick and Harry could use grinding equipment. Their training was hidden in the general HaSaWA section 2 duties.
PUWER 98 repealed these last remnants of the Abrasive wheels regulations.
Reg 7(1) (a) of PUWER 98 requires that where use of work equipment involves a "specific risk to H or S" (ie not just dropping it on your foot) the use of that equipment must be restricted to those who "are given the task of using it". The specific hazards of grinding equipment includes occasionally killing people.
7 (1) (b) restricts servicing, maintenance and changing wheels on such equipment to those persons who have been specifically designated to do so, thus re-stating the requirement in the 1970 regs.
7 (2) requires these persons to be trained in the task.
8 requires that those "given the task" and those who supervise them be given information etc about hazards of use
9 requires that those "given the task" and those who supervise them be given adequate training about methods of use, risk and precautions
Kind regards
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By SARA TAYLOR
Thanks everyone for your response..
it is very difficult to get people to change their ways so i guess its a wee challenge for me..
so basically we could have some of the staff on an intensive abrasive wheels course who can then (once passed and deemed competent by their trainer)train other members of staff and keep it well documented etc, and only if they are then deemed competent they can pass or be allowed to use the equipment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By KCS
Hi Sara,
Abrasive wheels training only covers the candidates in the correct mounting of the wheel, it does not cover them for the operation of the equipment. what we usually do is we cover the abrasive wheels course in the morning then go on and cover the light plant in the afternoon, if the candidates are experienced in the operation of the equipment we simply carry out an assessment. This covers the selecting, checking, idenfying and mounting the wheel as well as the correct use of it and the equipment.
If you do go down the route of training a few candidates and then getting them to pass the information onto the workforce you will need to be very careful, i know a lot of highly skilled machine operators with over 20 years experience in the field, but getting them to pass this information on is another matter.
God forbid but if an accident was to happen in your workplace (this could be simply down to a bad batch of wheels), the HSE will ask to see training records and whom carried out the training, then my friend we get into the old word 'competence' which as we know consists of training knowledge experience and ability to make sound judgement - although your workforce may have years experience operating the machinery the question which will be asked is what training they have recieved in the methods of instruction and assessment.
if this was the case it could be argued that the training was neither suitable or sufficient, so it would be advisable to put some of your staff on a trainers course prior to going down that route. good look and be safe
Kind Regards
KCS
P.S. watch out for some 'abrasive wheels instructors' as some of them will damage the flooring in your workplace due to the spurs on their boots!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By The Bat
Do you have to carry out refresher training for the use and fitting of the abrasive wheels?
Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Mitch
The Bat (like your angle),
The course our guys completed at the local Tech covered them for, and I quote, "Selection, mounting and use of the following categories of abrasive wheels Straight Sided Wheels, Bonded Abrasive Discs, Cup Wheels, Depressed Centred Wheels, Cutting Odd Wheels" They now have a "Motor Vehicle and Engineering Certificate of Basic Training". The course blurb specifically states they are precluded from instructing and supervising others in these tasks with this level of achievement and they will not require a refresher course though higher training can be obtained, I am sure some of the previous responders to this could advise you better on what other training is available.
Regards
Mitch
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Bob
Hi
Having trained as an engineer, and worked in the 1970's on large centreless grinding machines (grinding wheels approx 1m dia x 500mm wide) followed by 25 years as a teacher of design and technology, running a department of workshops and 40 years of DIY using angle grinders etc, I thought I was competent...
Having changed career following redundancy, I have just attended a half day course in changing abrasive wheels.... 1) I HAD DEVELOPED BAD HABITS, 2) I TENDED TO OVERTIGHTEN WHEELS 3) I WAS NOT AWARE OF CHANGES IN REGULATIONS....
Apart from the requirements under HASAWA 1974, and PUWER 1998 any employer who baulks at spending a few hundred pounds (we had 10 employees trained for a total of about £600 by the local college) needs his head testing...
Wheel periphery speed is approx 180mph - what employer in his right mind would let anyone loose on a bit of kit that runs at that speed without adequate training??
In the 19th century average life expectancy for a grinder in Sheffield was 37 years - most died from silicosis - many also died from burst grinding wheels...
What cost to the employer if a grinding disc bursts and injures of kills one of his employees?????
Sarah, if your boss will not spend money on this essential training, where else is he cutting corners?? Is he really the sort of employer you want to be working for????
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Paul Leadbetter
Bob
A salutary tale; thank you for sharing it.
Paul
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By jayjay
Sorry to jump on the band wagon but i noticed a few of the responses indicated that once an employee is trained he can the train other people !! Where does that persons competencies come from apart from doing a basic skills course on abrasive wheels ? The person carrying out instruction should have carried out some form of teaching in instructional techniques and be a competent instructor/examiner. Otherwise we as someone mentioned as well will have every tom,dick and harry training people in equipment they've really not got a clue about apart from operating,inspection and using it. They've got to also belong to an accredited organisation such as ITSSAR,RTITB,CITB,CPCS just to name a few examples.
Regards, JJ
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Bob
Hi again
Just to follow up: my tutor spends approx £6k per year in keeping his own qualifications current. The course was to a nationally recognised standard with a formal assessment at the end, and in due course I will receive my certificate/card. He is also an accredditted NVQ examiner, but as JJ points out, there are a lot of 'cowboys' out there, so be careful.
As an ex teacher I could easily instruct others in what I have learned - but I would not have any official recognition. If the firm I work for was prepared to accept the risk there would be some audit trail that I was trained, and competent but in the event of an accident, I doubt the HSE would be very impressed... Which is why we now have nationally recognised bodies such as CITB/CPCS, LANTRA and City and Guilds.
The most I would be prepared to do is give one of our annual Workplace Talks (Toolbox Talks) on the subject (and this would only be to staff that had also attended an external training course). The company I work for have a rolling programme of in-house refresher training, and also three (occasional users) to five (regular users) yearly external refresher training for use of plant and dangerous equipment such as Chain Saws.
I know I am lucky in working for a company that takes H&S seriously, and that is prepared to spend money (this year's budget is £30k, but for 200 employee's this does not actually buy a lot of training). I previously worked for a small engineering company, who because they had less than 5 employees had no H&S policy... my induction there was a case of there is the angle grinder, there are the replacement discs, now get on with it....what training????
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Christopher Kelly TechIOSH MIIRSM AIEMA
HSG17 - ACOP specific to abrasive wheels.
The certification is just required for personnel changing wheels basically because of the importance of ensuring that the wheel is properly centred as failure to do this will increase vibration and cause the wheel to fragment.
If you do your risk assessment to comply with PUWER / this ACOP you will need to carry out some form of training for abrasive wheel users but it doesn't need to be from an approved / licenced body.
Note the increased inspection requirements for portable abrasive wheels.
Hope of help,
Chris
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By GavinR
If i had 8 maintenance staff, varying in experience, but all who have received training as part of previous employment, apprenticeships, experience would i still need to have a formal training for them completed?
I think yes! If i have had 3 employees trained in use, mounting, selection and changing of wheels of which the course included a evaluation of their ability to present and teach to others would this be enough to prove competence?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Mitch
I would say yes under PUWER.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.