Posted By David Bramall Hello everyone I am a sometimes contributor to this forum. I have been having a look recently and noticed that even when given a lead or a piece of advice, some people are unwilling to accept it and even state from time to time that they would rather just use somebone elses template, procedure... Surely when we are given advice on where to look for information, we should at least do that - if we then dont agree then it is reasonable to say so but at least try. Where does this place H&S professionalism in the grand scale of things. When we think of Great People - Marie Curie (Physicist), Brunel (Civil Engineer), Newton (Mathematician), Da Vinci (Artist and Engineer) who worked tirelessly to find answers, to design all sorts etc. and then look at us - possibly comparing ourselves to these people. I Arthur Askew! It is starting to appear to me that we are quite willing to become sheep and whatever the first one (response) does or says we will accept it. Sometimes a difference of opinion occurs and then we follow the view with the most agreement. If anyone agrees that in responding to threads we should not simply enclose our procedure, our policy, our risk assessment... please respond with a simple "AGREE and DRB is a genius" and bring back some real professionalism to the health and safety world. Regards DrB

Posted By CFT David Whilst there will always be a modicum of people that want a procedure or a document or a system to fit it with their own work place H&S requirements, in the main, I have found that these are the minority and I would rarely supply any documents to support such a request. Frequently, when someone asks for help, the responder must try to interpret what is being asked, as on many occasions the questions simply don't give sufficient information and one must, on those occasions have a 'scatter gun' approach to reply (in the hope you have covered what was being asked in the first place) many posters don't bother to follow up with additional information, many do, and it is the latter than can expect an accurate response to the question; it may be for legislation help, exam help, systems in the workplace the difference between this and that, and even dare one suggest to look at a document to see if they have it right; (OK, perhaps with that latter one in mind it is a bit naive to assume that is the case) and so on and so forth. I don't have the time to analyse the forums to work out just how many respond by offering procedures, documents, RA's, the policy,without further questioning, but as a fairly regular contributor I see them as fairly few and far between, and therefore can't quite grasp the point you are making! Of the great people you mention in your post, and there are certainly some great ones mentioned, I suspect none would have had a great knowledge of health & safety (obvious reasons not withstanding), apart from general common sense for their own life, so one might even guess that they, given the opportunity would have asked for some help here on the forums, to better understand the specifics of our profession; if indeed they happened to be around today and browsing the IOSH website I cannot therefore agree to respond as you have requested. All the best CFT

Posted By Carl West Its a bit harsh. Especially on genuine Health and Safety starters who want to get into the profession and better themsleves. I thought the main reason of these forums was to help each other and bounce ideas etc... I cant see anything wrong with showing someone a template or procedure if they are stuck or wanting to know something. How did we all start out in the first place? most of us had bosses or mentors etc didnt we?

Posted By Colin Reeves Geoff Not too much salt though, bad for the blood pressure .......... 'tis Friday after all! Colin

Posted By Adie Hi, I am new to the H&S world, and while I have my own ideas about all the associated "paperwork" I value advice that people amy wish to offer. To that end I have recently found myself looking for various examples of documents which in most cases may already be in existance within another organisation. From those offered I take the elements I see as good and add my own "twist" appropriate to my organisation. I don't believe in re-inventing the wheel, but we could add tyres! As to being a professional, well that depends on the iterpretation of "professional". All I endeavour to provide is accurate, reasoned, practicle and sensible advice to my employers as the "subject matter expert". I have found myself "wondering" and have sought advice from various sources, including the HSE and from that advice I've formed my opinion. Recently my Managing Director asked me how I percived my role as the H&S advisor, and my answer was that I aim to implement effective H&S strategy that will save lives and prevent injuries. Then I'll try to save the company money and keep the directors out of prison.

Posted By GeoffB4 Thank you Briggie! Trouble is we can't PLease all the people all the time - so why bother trying.

Posted By peter gotch 1 DrB. Brunel [each of them!] was a genius to whom I have a blood relationship. However, the accident performance associated with various of their projects did not exhibit genius! Regards, Peter