Posted By Adie Hi, I have recently completed the First Aid at Work course, and I asked about Defibrilators in the work place. The advice I received was that it is okay to have one however, as with all things, it should only be used by a trained operator. Both the St John Ambulance and the British Red Cross run courses that would be appropriate. I would think that you should weigh-up the true need for one in your work environment against the genuine likelyhood of a staff member suffering a heart attack in the work place. Finally, and having some first aid experiance, the basics of first aid cannot be ignored and have trained first aiders who can perform CPR should be the priority. Adie

Posted By Paul Duell As David has just said, this is an argument that comes round and round on here - and like him, I'm firmly a member of the "pro" camp. If someone's heart goes into VF (not necessarily a heart attack), the ONLY successful life saving treatment is defibrillation - under these circumstances the heart compressions you learned on your first aid course are just a stopgap. Every minute's delay in defibrillation reduces the chance of survival by 10%. So - work out how long it would take an ambulance to reach your location (on average), and compare that to how long it would take a trained operator to fetch the unit and get to where the person has been taken ill. While obviously a trained operator is your best bet, the modern units are so automated that they are impossible to use incorrectly. The unit analyses the heart rhythym and will not deliver a shock unless one is required. Voice instructions tell you what to do at every step. The cons (apart from the obvious one of price) seem to be that used incorrectly, the units won't make things better, and can cause severe (electrical) burns to the ill person. While that may be true, bear in mind that if you don't dfibrillate, the person is probably going to die - so the choice is being dead, or being alive with severe burns. That's oversimplifying quite a lot, but don't let the burns argument put you off!

Posted By Adie Hi again, I should have said that I am a big fan of these devices (although, luckily, I never had to use one). They are simple and easy to use. I was trained in their use while serving in the Armed Forces and have carried one on duty. They remove the "human error" factor, and generally (depending on type) need no interaction between device and trained user once in operation. The workforce I support is small and tends to be young and fit, although some of the directors are older and not so fit. So my assessment for my organisation is that one is not necessary. However, if my organisation had the budget I would have one on site (we're a small site) and have plenty of trained operators. I believe that in most areas the ambulance service endeavour to be on scene within 15 minutes of a 999/112 call. I must disagree that CPR is a "stop-gap"! It is a basic life saver... I have the real time, hands-on experiance to know that. Ultimately, if you have the budget and trained users then I suggest getting one; but if not, then your organisations trained first aiders will be more than ample to cope with a heart attack. I wish you well.

Posted By David Add me to the pro defib side :-) Im just starting my H&S career having done 20 years in pre hospital and in-hospital care. Just to add my 2 pennysworth : As has been said before, defibs are not designed for use with a heart attack patient but with a patient who is suffering cardiac arrest Yes, a lot of cardiac arrests have an initial heart attack /cardiac episode that causes it but there are other causes as well. Re the "stop gap" comment about cpr , if the patient is in cardiac arrest the cpr wont save him , it will keep his brain alive so that defibrillation may have a successful outcome. There are positive outcomes just from cpr but the research tends to point to those being respiratory arrests only. and lastly , there are lots of us around who have experience in defib training and placement programmes not just the voluntary aid societies. Also add me to the "zap me im fibrillating "list please. David

Posted By Roy Lalor They are getting quite a lot of publicity in Ireland at present due to SADS (Sudden Adult Death Syndrome) Our new Occupational First Aid protocols will include defibrillation training from June 2008. If you buy one, then I think training is a must with together with updates and a company register of people trained. Our kids school bought three recently and my wife trained fourteen teachers. She also trained our own two lads, 15 and 13 respectively, so there's no big deal over learning. Roy lalor LTS First Aid Specialists www.lalortraining.ie