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Posted By Rob sharp
Hi
I am in the process of moving our oxygen/ acetylene storage from inside the building to outside.
I have look at the guidance on safe storage and it says a 3m distance between the 2 types of bottles with a fire wall in between.
My question is what constitutes a fire wall? Is it just a brick wall?
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Posted By Phil H
A fire wall is a fire resistant wall, which could be a brick wall or an internal wall with certain properties which satisfy building regulations.
A brick wall maybe OK depending on the the height and structure of the wall and internal fittings,such as wooden gates etc.
It also depends on the resistance it would have to say an explosion. I would suggest the fire service or site surveyor maybe able to assist.
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Posted By Kevin Drew
Rob,
I would have to disagree with your assessment. My interpretation of BCGA GN 2 gives a minimum separation distance between acetylene and oxygen cylinders of zero metres and no requirement for a fire wall.
Kevin Drew
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Posted By Ron Hunter
BCGA GN 2 requirements for bulk storage says 3 metres (Table 1). O metres applies to distance between cylinders (e.g.) on a welding set.
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Posted By Kevin Drew
Ron,
Sorry, but I have to disagree. There was no mention of bulk storage in the original posting only bottles (cylinders?). Bulk storage is defined as static vessels of capacity greater than 1000 litres into which product is delivered. The zero metres does not just refer to cylinders on welding sets but to actual storage of cylinders.
Kevin Drew
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Posted By MP
Chaps
It's good practice to put acetylene at one end of your store and oxygen at the other - if you are short of space then fill the gap with inert cylinders like Nitrogen, Argon, CO2, etc.
To qualify as a "fire wall" it must be of brick or block constructions at be at least 2.0 metres high.
MP
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Posted By Mike Nixon
In HSG71 the storage of packaged dangerous substances - the HSE indicate that Class 2 Flammable gases should be 'Kept Apart' from compressed gases by 3m in inside or outside storage areas. There is a separation table on page 24/25 for transport categories 2,3,4,5,6 & 8
Thus I have always applied this rule for storage of acetylene and oxygen cylinders when not on a welding set.
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Kevin/MP
I feel uncomfortable with the general thrust of your assertions that oxygen and flammable gases can be stored in close proximity to each other without adequate separation or a fire wall segregation. I cannot lay my hands on my BCGA code but I was recently at a session of one of their approved trainers and it was made very clear that segregation of oxygen was at least 3m from the nearest flammable gas container unless there was an adequate firewall.
Welding sets are the sole exception but with no spares stored in the area.
I cannot see the HSE accepting any assessment with oxygen and flammable gases in the same cage and within 3m of each other.
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Posted By Rob sharp
Many thanks for all your comments. This has helped me greatly. Thanks Again
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Posted By MP
The 3.0 metre separation or build a firewall ruling is for LPG and comes from the LPGA CoP No. 7
This specific rule does not apply to all the other compressed gases.
MP
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Posted By Kevin Drew
Robert,
The easy one first, welding gases.
HSG139 covers the safe use of compressed gases in welding, flame cutting and allied processes. HSG139 specifically states "cylinders ready for use and connected to equipment may be kept inside a workroom. A spare cylinder of fuel gas and oxygen may also be kept there". So my interpretation of this is that it is perfectly acceptable to keep spare oxygen and acetylene cylinders in the workplace with all of the usual provisos.
The various DSEAR ACoPs, L135 and L136 are non specific with regard to separation distances but do state that "separation distances are quoted in industry codes of practice and guidance" which leads one to BCGA. HSG139 specifically refers to BCGA GN2. Table 1 of BCGA GN2 is quite specific with regard to minimum separation distances and between oxygen and acetylene it is zero. If we were talking about LPG then it is 3 metres. Table 1 also specifies separation distances between other features which may be more significant, eg.building openings, site boundaries, etc, etc. Unfortunately, I haven't had the benefit of talking top a BCGA approved trainer so I can only go on the guidance as written.
Incidentally, back to the original posting, L136 gives a wealth on advice on fire walls.
So I stand by my original assertions.
Kevin
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Sorry Kev you are correct re acetylene. I still stick in the pre 2005 timewarp. I am bemused at the logic thoigh for many of the gas storage rules!:-)
LPG though cannot be stored in the vicintiy of inerts either!! Makes you wonder how we sell these issues across the board.
Bob
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Posted By Ron Hunter
I confirm (and apologies to)Kevin, he is correct in his reading of BCGA guidance - no separation for cylinders.
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Posted By Kevin Drew
Thanks chaps. I was starting to doubt my own sanity - again!!
Kevin
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