Posted By CFT JG It is, but perhaps not as one might first think after reading your post., and I mean no disrespect to consultants per se, I used to be one! Where the OHS employee will find it hard for the immediate future when the stake holders are playing the 'balancing' game (between sensibility and profit, specifically)is being restricted to the 'one' skill; for many companies it works well but for as many others it will be in their ''expert''opinion an unnecessary luxury, so inevitably redundancies will follow; it is the multi-skilled individual who will be fine by creating some degree (all-be-it minimal)of flexibility to be able to turn the hand to other areas in addition to OHS, thus ensuring he/she satisfies the balance book in terms of best value (and yes, I refer to £p in this instance). It is not as bad as one may think at this moment in time, so there is an opportunity to diversify; having so said it will be the already poor company cultures that will make the early sacrificial decisions; those that take it seriously already recognise the cost implications if it were to go wrong; for it is those companies that already employ the fully competent and worthwhile individual; those persons should have little to be concerned about... unless the organisation goes belly up completely of course! Can't someone come up with a quality 'Friday' post to shine some sun into the weekend? Charley

Posted By D H I am a trainer / advisor in both HSE and Environment - employed by a medium sized consultancy firm. Grad Iosh and AIEMA Trained to NVQ level 4 plus CPD / IPD - you name it - I got it or can get access to it! Frequently I am asked to attend smaller to medium sized companies who are starting their SMSs or EMSs to explain what it is all about and advise as what they need to do. I have found that a lot of companies are now training people to IOSH Managing Safely standard, and expecting them to implement the Safety / Environmental Management Prog. Now - I have no problem with someone wanting to increase their knowledge and standing in any company. However, when I advise someone who only has Managing safely Cert and who is being barrelled into the Safety, Quality and Environmental side of things, I am increasingly asked why I am suggesting they need further training etc. I suggested to one "HSEQ Manager" - who only had IOSH Managing Safely cert - that she needed full support from senior management. I suggested that she needed to be removed from her "day job" to enable her - with my company support - to get more training and assistance to carry out her new duties. She was tasked to implement 18001 and ISO14001 I was challenged by her superior as to how I could deem her competence? - that she had got a good score on Managing Safely course so what was the problem? So how could I deem her to need more training? I have since taken the person under my wing to advise in any way she wishes outwith my companies involvement. No problem. But her company have now found this out and I have been told today by my company that I am now "persona non grata" on this companies sites for interfering and request another advisor to go to their sites. My company interviewed me on the matter and have accepted my reasoning and may withdraw support to this company but I will continue to help and mentor the person involved. Point is - companies are paying people off as the original poster stated. But to allow the young and well meaning to take the responsibility is in my mind criminal. I will continue to coach, mentor and advise this person to the best of my ability, but at the end of the day - management - and this is an oil support company - have a hard lesson coming.

Posted By colin1936 Having worked in both the manufacturing and construction consultancy the pressures will be felt on SHE personnel in Manufacturing and in construction my medium to small sized developers. In manufacturing profit margins are not normally great. Companies will always look at the margins and if there is a choice of loosing staff it will normally be the non productive staff that will have to go and quite rightly so. A on site SHE professional will be seen as a luxury. The developer has also the same problems complicated with the slow down in housing markets and are likely to act sooner than later to the credit squeeze.

Posted By Jimmy Greaves Thanks for the comments and it appears that there is truth in a lot of what has been said. I've spoke to two of the clients, one had a H&S person that had only IOSH Managing Safely who subsequently struggled to do what was asked, floundered and subsequently sunk... fear factor probably prevented them from asking for more training etc. The second had someone who was not very practical but had all the qualifications, kept telling Senior Management that it was 'certain death' if the didn't do this and didn't do that.... Didn't provide solutions, just challenges, that I must admit having investigated myself, were not SFARP, individual aoppeared to be rule bound with little flexibility. I hasten to add that in both cases they are paying me a lot more than they were previous, not withstanding sick pay, pensions, holidays etc.

Posted By Robert K Lewis Somewhere in here is the argument concerning regulation of safety professionals and possibly some reflection on the responsibilities of directors. Without certain activities being reserved to recognised professionals I am afraid that we are at a loss to prevent this watering down of safety management. I do however believe that the CPS and HSE will need to bring forward such use of ill trained persons in these positions as aggravating factors in any HASAWA or CM prosecution. I would personally favour some changes to the law such that would allow administrative actions by the HSE such as automatic director disqualification in the event of a conviction and/or the ability to require Non-Exec safety directors to be appointed or specified Director training and performance criteria to be met within a specified period. This could I think be enacted under the remdiation orders available under both HASAWA and CM. - Whole new profession for Chartered Memebers coming perhaps a parallel to Insolvency Practitioners, Safety Administration Practitioners - Fees could be interesting. Bob

Posted By Lloyd Cole Hi colin1936. I worked with a guy last year qualified to the hilt, hadnt got a clue how to use his safety advise, because he didnt have man management experience, so he sat in a office and made graphs on the computer. safety is all about educating the indivividuals and work force, you speak to people the way you expect to be spoken to, if you cant do that, and especially on a buiding site or tunnel programme, some 6foot 6 inch scaffolder is going to take offence. Currently NEBOSH will take any individual or company employee ( Who can pay !) and put them through the exams, Cert or Dip, without a mere mention of how to put one self accross, and the skill required to make people interested. Consequently some Knob who thinks he is a god all of a sudden after passing the criteria of the exam will place the good name of workplace health and safety in jeopardy.