Rank: Guest 
|
Posted By Kathy Smith
Hi there
I have volunteered to provide health and safety advice to my local parish churches and am finding that this is proving quite a challenge from my 'day job' (healthcare risk and safety). If anyone out there has any experience of health and safety in regard to churches and/or listed buildings then I would appreciate making contact.
A more specific question is this: the stairs to the bell tower have a rope handrail. Currently this is secured at either end but not along its length. Does anyone know if there are any specific safety requirements relating to rope handrails? I've tried 'googling' this but have drawn a blank.
Many thanks
Kathy
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Paul Leadbetter
Kathy
There was a recent thread on church H & S; try a search to find it. It had a lead to a website but I can't remember the address.
Paul
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Kathy Smith
Thanks Guys
I've tried searching the IOSH forum but have come up blank - will keep trying. The website looks very useful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Kieran J Duignan
Kathy
The British Standard on building access for people with disabilities has ergonomic guidance on design of public spaces for meetings and physical locomotion which may provide useful information for you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Chris G
The rope handrail secured top & bottom around the centre pillar of the spiral is a common cop out done by bell ringers. Many such stairways are too narrow to have a fixed rail & due to Faculty requirements, permission even if there is room is frequently refused.
If looking at the rope from a H&S point of view note that it is likely to by a natural fibre, ex bell rope selected because futher repair was not possible & so is probably dubious as a handrail. Ringing rooms are also difficult from a fire risk assessment point of view, single excape point via a steep, poorly lit stairway who's design turns it into an efficient chimney. Ringing chamber often has no link to fire detection in the church & procedures are often poor in determining if exeryone has evacuated safely. The Central Council of Church bell ringers (cccbr.org.uk) should be able to provide better & more detailed advice on H&S in the tower.
Chris G (currently researching (in early stages) Bell tower HS&E for a future guide book)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Ian Bruce
Hi Kathy,
I've done a bit of H&S advice to a local church and like you have discovered it's quite challenging!
Take a look at Ecclesiatical Insurance's web site - they insure most Anglican churches in England and have some good safety advice somewhere within their website - sorry can't remember the address.
Ian
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Chris Mac
How Ironic,
Health and Safety in one of the most unsafe and unhealthy areas of modern society.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
Chris G,
I regularly hear a conversation amongst fellow bell-ringers, which often goes along the lines of “if health and safety saw what we get up to, they would soon ban us from doing this”.
I would agree with you that ringing chambers in the event of a fire, would be uncomfortable, however the likelihood of a significant fire occurring in an occupied church is quite remote. I would much rather focus the fire risk assessment on fire prevention rather than deal with the thorny subject of fire evacuation, which in many cases if you went down that route, you would simply stop the ringing!
In my bell ringing vacation, I know of a ringer who has fractured his clavicle, I have heard of an incident of a ringer (40 years ago) being killed when working in a bell chamber whilst the bells were up, however I have never ever heard of a fire related incident.
If you are looking at writing a book on this subject, it needs to be balanced against the actual risk of incident occurring!
By the way what can you ring?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By David F Spencer
Hi Kathy,
Try the Ansvar Insurance website. There are others who specialise in church insurance, but I honestly can't remember who. I did a risk assessment recently on activities in a Brethren Gospel Hall, but they don't have bell towers, so I can't help on that one. The requirement for a risk assessment was due to the insurer. However, if an old bell rope is used as a makeshift handrail, it needs to be kept away from the central wall by some kind of bracket or else fingers will soon become chafed. I suspect that a simple domestic smoke detector would be useful "upstairs" - task somebody with checking the battery each week! Perhaps you need to consider a noise assessment too, especially if summer Saturdays bring a number of weddings all with the bells. Oh, where does it end? PLMK if you think I can help further.
Regards.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Robert Paterson
Katy
I have sent some info for you to your email address.
Regards
Robert Paterson
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Chris G
Arran,
The fire problem with churches tends to be when they are mostly unoccupied. In an incident last year (Derby All Saints) an arsonist set fire to the vestry via a broken window, while ringing practice was going on up the tower. The fire alarm did it's job and the ringers evacuated safely. Thankfully the houskeeping in the vestry was to a high standard leaving little combustible material, and the fire remaind contained, limiting the damage caused.
I ring suprise minor & plain major/royal methods.
In an Incident about 25 - 30 years back a teenage ringer fell from a gallery into the bell frame at Derby St Luke and died (bells down) There was a significant delay in getting him to hospital tratments that might have saved his life due to access difficulties. Spiral stairways & stretchers don't mix very well.
I understand your comments about risk taken by ringers, bell frames ought to be located in the Chimps house at the zoo, as they have never been designed for humans to access them ;-)
The guide, if it ever gets finished will aim to balance risk / benefit etc more that a quick informal email at lunch.
Happy ringing
Chris.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By John-Mark
In my role as an enforcement officer, I recently carried out a programme of H&S inspections looking at Churches. In my experience, the belltowers I visited (and climbed) had either no handrail, because as someone has already said, there is no room for one, or they had a rope one, which was not an old bell-rope. They were new rope handrails bought specifically for the task, and were fixed to the outer wall of the tower, at several points, depending on the height of the tower. I understand these handrails are used in castles and the like.
I was a bellringer many years ago, and in those days we had no handrails. I was instrumental (no pun intended) in getting emergency lighting fitted in our Bell tower - unheard of back in the 1980s!
I am a Methodist these days, and before getting into the enforcement side of H&S, I helped my Church with its H&S issues. I use the Church Safety website, and have advised the owners of the site on different matters from time to time.
The Anglican Diocese you are in may have a H&S Officer - most have people responsible for property related issues. The Central Guild of Bellringers may be able to help also.
JM
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
Chris,
Having just had a look at the website for the Central Council of Church Bell Ringers, I do agree that there is an opportunity for clearer guidance on this subject.
My concern is that five years ago we did have a difficult time with own local EHO over access, but unfortunately when the tower was built in the 1300s we did not have the current building or workplace regs, however it does comply with the standard laid out in Deuteronomy, chapter 22, verse 8! In the end we came up with a much better access handrail system that she was proposing.
As you are aware a significant number of towers do not have handrails and there are some very interesting methods of access into some ringing chambers.
I can ring Cambridge Minor, Stedman triples and Little Bob Royal. I do need to practice more in order to move onto other surprise methods.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Kathy Smith
Hi everyone
I would just like to thank all of you for your responses - they are really helpful. Glad I asked!
Best regards :0)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.