Posted By david aylmer
where can i find information on the above. i have looked in SG4:5 and cant find anything. My understanding is, scaffold is inspected by the erector and handed over to the client. the scaffold must be inspected before 1st use by a competent person and thereafter every 7 days, but i cant find this written down anywhere?

can someone advise please

Posted By The toecap
Its very important to note that the handover cert is only a hire ticket. When you are given the HO cert. Have a wlak around the scaff with the erector to check and discuss any observations. This is a good way of inspecting it before its first use and you get an expert (allegedly) to walk with you and perhaps offer advice. After that you must do it every 7 days (Minimum), after alteration, after it has suffered a trauma (struck by a vehicle etc) after severe weather (don't for get rapid changes in temperature). Also remember, you only get quality if you pay a bit more. Don't go foe cheap go for VFM, value for money.

Posted By The toecap
Yes Bob, people are just taking the HO cert in the office without even looking at the kerplunk structure they have got. They gotta get out the office and see what they are paying for. But i agree the document is quite important

Posted By david aylmer
toecap, they make it clear but it is not written down anywhere unless i have missed it in SG4:5

david

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Gerry

I know precisely where you are coming from particularly with tube and fitting structures where TG20 is but a passing reference and the detail is often overlooked. I do think though that most standard courses on scaffold inspection either do not emphasise the particular specifications of the standards sufficiently or occasionally omit them altogether. There are significant items regularly met that have standard designs BUT only for a limited range of applications. For example the guidance states that the standard design for a loading bay is only suitable for non-mechanical loading, however it is always the one provided by scaffolders even though telehandlers are being used.

Even system scaffold has its own standard solutions that either apply or design is required. These too are sometimes "overlooked"

This does emphasise the need for independent inspection at handover but there are practical limitations. My view is that if site managers are aware of the common faults and deviations then they do have a fighting chance of being able to spot a potential dud.

Bob

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Gerry

The real problem is that the erectors claim BSEN or TG20 compliance when in fact a reasonable appreciation of the standards would rapidly tell any cursory inspector that in fact the scaffold offered does not comply with agreed published standards.

When I provide the 5 day SMSTS now I do try to extend the syllabus content a little and cover these areas as they actually make the managers job a lot easier on site. The Scaffolder quickly knows they must perform to standard and not to his own interpretation.

The Daveyhulme prosecution shows how readily erection companies can slip into omissions even from designed scaffold drawings.

Bob

Posted By Garry Adams
Bob,

No apologies required, lol...I am often referred to as Gerry...it must be the Celtic connection.

With reference to your opening paragraph, We are singing from the same hymn sheet with regard to BSEN and TG20. Moreover, I have a particular problem with B.S. 1139 Section 5 which refers to torque values allocated to Scaffolding component parts. I have discussed this topic on this form on numerous occasions, however, I have never been wholly satisfied with
the explanations offered in the discussions as to why there is not a meaningful control measure in place to control the breach of this B.S..

The question of torque values is of great concern to me and I make no apologies in raising it once more, once I get my teeth into something I never let go...My business is Risk and Safety Management , the Integrity and Reliability of Scaffolding Structures is of paramount concern to me and I have no doubt for tour good self. What is your view with regard to B.S.Torque values allocated to Scaffolding Component Parts , I would value your opinion.

Best regards, Garry...

Posted By Robert K Lewis
Angus

If the erectors do not comply with the BSEN or TG20 then the WAH regs cease to have real meaning as they are de facto breached.

Garry

Agree with you I am afraid that torque values and pull out testing are treated as something you only do if there is an awkward client/contractor. I have seen advanced ticket holders struggling to even set a torque value or use a pull out bridge. It is one of the benefits of system scaffold that one is not so reliant on such matters as correct torque and this is reflected in the approaches in the BS EN document. Try asking for a callibration certificate as well and the look of incomprehension can be a joy to behold.

Worryingly as well I meet many scaffolders who do not know how to correctly install expanding anchor ties and have been literally able to pull the ties out of concrete substrate without mechanical aid. Worrying on a 24 floor tower block fully scaffolded I can tell you.

Bob

Posted By Garry Adams


Although I have not use the Ring Ties you refer to for quite some time, I do however understand your concerns.

The incorrect installation of these ties are a valid concern, Scaffolders are nomadic in nature and mercenary in temperament, it is often taken for granted that when a (new start to the Organisation)Scaffolder (be it CISRC card holder or Capable/Competent Based) he is full conversed with his discipline, however, this is often not the case.

In-House induction is over looked, a more proactive attitude to Trade Tests prior to engaging new starts and In-House training would go a long way to ensure an enhanced workplace. I do not expect that the tie patterns should be matrix ed by the Scaffolder, thats the Engineers task, nevertheless I would expect a Scaffolder to install the ties for the purpose to which they were designed.

Perhaps you could approach the Principal Contractor and suggest a training programme be initiated to alleviate/mitigate the recurrence of that I would consider a near miss. (loose Ring Ties).

Addendum,
Bob, whats your opinion regarding the Corporate Manslaughter issue, apparently it comes into force on the sixth of April.
There is no new legislation, however I was informed that it would be made easier to enforce... but my associates could not tell me by what means that would be achieved. I expect this Question will be raised on the forum quite soon.

Regards, Garry...

Posted By Garry Adams
Bob

I am of the view that if a torque regulating spanner were to become the norm within the Scaffolding Industry, there would be no need for a cut off point because it would become a Status Que...however I can see your point.

regards, Garry...

Posted By Garry Adams
Bob

I agree that there would have to requirements under the PUWER recommendations, however, I would submitt that the benifits gleened from eliments of such a Loss Prevention Strategy and the fiscal savings to the Scaffolding Industry would justify a feasability study and a consensouse of oppinion within the Industry.

I can see where you are coming from regarding the erection of Steel framed superstructures, however, the Steel Erectors install the Bolts once, with regard to Scaffold...a component part has a hard cyclic life span and is on occasion subject to stresses beyond its elastic range.

As with many other mechanical safety devices that has been integrated into the Scaffolding Industry i.e. inertia reals, fall arrest quipment ect...the Inspection and callabration issue would become an accepted norm.

Regards,Garry...

Posted By david aylmer
Guys

thanks for all the interesting contributions, however all i wanted to know was where i could find details of scaff tagging procedure and who can do it

Posted By david aylmer
thankyou