Rank: Guest 
|
Posted By CFT
Out of interest where the jury may consider the guidance available, what do others think that may be?
The issue of guidance has been a moot subject with this particular Act and I would be really interested to hear others perceptions of what exactly that is.
I have my own thoughts but would really appreciate a response from others.
CFT
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Paul Leadbetter
Charley
I went to a MASP workshop on this very subject today and the solicitor talking to us said that any published guidance whether ACoP or not (from HSE) or any guidance from industry bodies, etc. could be used.
Paul
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Tim
Charley,
Are you looking for specific types of guidance that may be relevant?
I was thinking maybe HSG47 underground services, maybe some work at height related guidance, SG4 etc?
Any thoughts
Tim
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By CFT
No Tim not along those lines; what anyone considers the reference in the Act to mean, 'guidance'?
As we all know we are not legally bound by SG/HSG so what do they mean when they state 'guidance' in the Act?
I believe I know, but I really was interested to hear what others thought or what indeed they perceived it to mean. No tricks or being clever ( I can't, I'm far to thick) I was just really interested, as this is not a standard point of reference. Or, have a pop at 'attitude' now that is the 'thought Police' ten pieces of silver to anyone who can say where that exists in UK H&S ledge today other than the afore mentioned Act;-)
Charley
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Pete48
CFT, looking at the Ministry of Justice guidance/Q&A document as a source reference. That suggests that it is no different from any other reference to guidance. i.e ACOP, HSE guidance, industry specific guidance etc.
I guess areas like HSG65 or other mgmt systems guidance may take on more significance. The decision not to follow published guidance is also still allowed for companies with the existing provisos. So, not following guidance is not, of itself, proof of guilt. Interesting prospect of how to convince a jury of that course however, when faced with a charge under CMA/CHA.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Tim
It will be interesting to see how this pans out, by looking at how guidance is taken into account, management systems and attitudes etc, are they are trying to take the temperature of the organisation to determine how positive the safety culture is?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By peter gotch
Hi CFT.
I went to a briefing on this last week. One of the solicitors commented that he thought that 'Leading health and safety at work' would be commonly offered to juries, particularly where also a personal prosecution involved [whether personal manslaughter /homicide or under HSWA]
www.hse.gov.uk/leadership
Regards, Peter
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By db
The issue of guidance will be the same for the new CM as it is for the current gross negligence manslaughter case and HSW cases.
There is no fundamental difference in the level of evidence required for any of the cases.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By CFT
OK then, I'll give what I perceive to be guidance, and I see it as a generic term for everything that may be available!
That could mean ACoPs, MSDS's, Manufacturers guidance, industry guidance on anything in fact related to the case in hand. There was a time a while ago where a lot of folks baulked at the word 'guidance' I tend to see this now as a 'catch all' phrase 'for whatever might be available to guide you/them/it/process/etc, and is not exclusively aimed at H&S guidance as many perceived it to be; legal or no legal status I believe is going to be quite immaterial as far as this Act is concerned.
No doubt someone is going to disagree, which is what makes these discussion forums just that, a forum to discuss.
CFT
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.