Rank: Guest 
|
Posted By HR71
Hi,
I have a company with around 700 employees. They use a thumb impression attendance system. There are no registers to take to the rally point for roll call. I don't think printing name lists during an emergency is possible. Do you have any suggestions how I can get accurate information to the rally point to conduct an effective roll call?
Cheers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Philip Beale
rather than looking at using a roll call. use a fire warden sweep of the building. each fire warden checks an area of the building, once checked reports to assembly point to report area clear.
This way you are checking no one is left in the building. disadvantage you need fire wardens trained and to establish set search areas and how you assign to persons.
roll call can be very ineffective as you don't now who is on or off site 100% unless you can guarantee that it's hard to give a confident answer to the fire service that the building is clear.
Phil
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Stefan Daunt
I imagine that a Company of that size would have many departments and supervisors. Is it possible for the dept heads to take a register as such at the start of the shift to indicate attendance or absence? The registers could be then bought to a roll call and the dept heads take the nominal roll of those present, flagging up any persons missing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Jem
While a roll call is good practice, it is not an effective tool for ensuring that your building is empty as it is often difficult account for everybody, especially at lunch times etc.
Focusing on your fire warden procedures for ensuring the building is empty is more important.
Having evacuees assemble in teams and taking a roll call is good practice, but if someone is not accounted for do you send the fire brigade in to search? What if the person have gone to the shop or for a cigarette?
Much better to be sure the building is empty.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By ianmilne69
Hi, you need to break this into smaller and easier chuncks to swallow. First, each department must take charge of their staff.
If you can get each dept to review and recognise which staff work normal hours in building, which staff are known to be out, then you know who to target i.e. e mail to these staff 'are you in this week'. Some dept/companies operate a local in/out board which 'can' work, but behaviour to do this is difficult.
Then, during drills, a nominated/trained person(s) does the sweep and start the roll call (usually the fire Warden) on arrival when working from a smaller list of who is/is not there.
They then report to the fire marshall and confirm details. The fire marshall can then act as liaison to emergency services with facts.
Pool the response together or find out how other large companies (and your IOSH branch meetings) do it. Hope it helps with your other idea's.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Mitch
Agree with other postings that a well Fire Warden Sweep is the best way of making sure the buildings have been evacuated. It could also be useful for the fire services to know if people have not evacuated and their possible location, is it possible to get a print out of the thumb system to define a search by departmental managers at the assembly points?
Mitch
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Barry Cooper
It is not always possible to do a sweep of the premises. Our site is some 5 acres of buildings and is like a rabbit warren. It would take a very long time to do a sweep of the buildings, and could not do it in the time it takes for the F&R to arrive, who are quite happy with the fact that we have chosen to use the roll call method, and it works well
Barry
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By HR71
Hi,
Thanks for the comments. Actually, I thought about the sweep but my facility is over 20 acres and practically it is a near impossible to do it due to the time involved. At the moment, we record the number of people in each department but not with the names. The problem with this setup is that, if some are missing it is difficult to find out which one is missing? Does that bother you if you were in my shoes?
Cheers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Gabe
Each department should have a roll call of it's own people. Contractors working in an area should be covered by permit-to-work and know where the evacuation point is and the permit issuer will be responsible for knowing where they are. Visitors should be shepherded by whoever is in charge of them.
I don't like the idea of sending anyone back in to an evacuated building. That is the fire departments area of expertise.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Lloyd Cole
HR71 and all.
Your high tech system of thumb print seems a good idea, how you get that information back to a muster point I cant help you. Clock cards have allways worked.........Signing a book on entry and leaving comes a second,
Caution to the wind here.....With a workforce as large as yours your assembly system must be good, your emergency plan for the premises correct, if you have such a system for entry the Fire Bobbies are going to expect the same calibre system for accounting personnel.
Fire tests and practice fire evacs are your only means of seeing how it could work, what you dont want are staff still in the building looking for missing workers, a quick sweep yes, searching a big No, get out and stay out.
Too many employers keep using this terminoligy SEARCH, there is no such vocation in any workers responsibility to search a building on fire or alerted to fire.
Most of the comments here excellent with all having the same ideas of heads of depts taking registers, this may be your answer...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Tabs
Thumb print on entry. Thumb print on normal exit. System always knows who is in and who is out.
If you add a readers to assembly point and secondary assembly point, people can 'thumb in' and the system would then do the roll call for you. You would end up with a residual number (if any) of those not at the assembly point.
Drawbacks: doesn't work if people don't normally 'thumb out'; doesn't work if power to system is lost/interrupted; requires new remote readers and remote interrogation.
Interrogation unit could be in remote security hut I guess, and UPS systems are quite cheap now.
In my experience, manual roll-calls are never quick enough, and they are continuing as the brigade leave ...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Lloyd Cole
Tabs said..
"In my experience, manual roll-calls are never quick enough, and they are continuing as the brigade leave ..."
If the Brigade are leaving , why carry on the roll call !
This is what lot of brigades do, the " Stop " message is placed as soon as a false alarm or fault is indicated, so they are back on the run and available.
In todays age of fire prevention, this is not uncommon, fire systems go into fault, there rarely is a fire .Companies that invest in good standard fire equipment and training should never see the devastation fire can bring.
However,
technology breaks down, and so will thumb impression entry equipment,leaving the owner of it with no evidence of people present, As my previous statement , Heads of dept take a register, It works.......
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Kevin Brown
From conversations with the Fire and Rescue service they don't put a lot of credence in roll calls or status boards. They much prefer an assurance that trained and competent fire wardens have checked the facility and either given an assurance that the building is clear or been given specific information about stragglers. They don't need to know where any particular individual is, but it's crucial that they know without a doubt where he or he isn't. Knowing that allows them to deploy their resources in the safest, most effective way ( or possibly, not deploy them at all). If they don't have to search for missing persons they can assess the risk to their own people more accurately.
I have much more confidence in the assurance process than roll calls, and if someone stops off at Starbucks on the way to the muster point I'll let them justify themselves to their manager. Just so long as the emergency response team have swept the building while making their own way out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Gabe
There wont be a "one size fits all" solution to this. It will inevitably depend on the size of the organisation and the complexity of the buildings layout.
If roll-calls are too large to handle they need to broken down into manageable numbers and responsible persons assigned to take them.
Regular fire drills will help to spot any weak points in any evacuation plan and should be used as an evaluation tool.
Plenty of food for thought in this thread.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Jay Joshi
You have mentioned an "Evacuation roll call" but not provided details of the facility.
Is it a fire evacautaion or does it include all manner of evacuations?
Are they office type buildings, what activities are being undertaken etc.??
What the fire authorities need to know is whether the building/area has been evacuated or not, so that they can decide in the course of action. This can be acheived by a roll call or appointed personnel carrying out the sweeps in a systematic manner or a combination.
If you have a multitude of buildings on site, the roll call may not be the most effective method.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By HR71
Thank you all..! I got plenty of lines to think about..
Cheers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By shaun mckeever
Lloyd, to be fair to tabs I think what he meant was that their role call is often not complete by the time the fire service are leaving site.
I favour a sweep system rather than role call but it very much depends on the unique circumstances that will apply to the site. It would not be appropriate for a roll call of the Natwest Tower for example.
Reading the answers above I wonder if it is necessary for the larger sites mentioned i.e. 20 acres and 5 acres to have a simultaneous evacuation strategy. Have you considered phased evacuation? If is is possible to have a phased evacuation strategy then roll call may not quite so difficult.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Barry Cooper
We tried a phased evacuation by having evacuation zones, but how do you know where persons are or should be.
E.g. Someone from the office is visiting another area, which then goes to evacuation alarm, how do you know he is in that area, and should be on the roll call.
That is why decided on a site wide evacuation, and with a possible 80 - 100 persons, it works well. And the F&R are happy with it.
I also don't like the thought of sending someone back into a burning building, but rather leave it to the professionals.
Barry
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By lizzie harvey
We use pin boards at our work. We have over 700 employees, we break them down into departments, each employee then moves the pin to the "in" or "out" box beside their name, even if it's just for a quick puff outside.The departmental managers update the board every morning, scoring out those on days off, holidays or on sick leave. Once the fire alarm goes off, the person in charge of the department then takes the pin board to the assembly point, takes a roll call and then informs the Fire Team Controller of anyone unaccounted for. The wardens then do a sweep and give the 999's a sit rep.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By patrick carr
Hi all,
I know the coal miners had a system, that before they went down the shaft,they were all issued with a numbered token,in your case, issued on building entry by security etc, on returning to the surface after their shift,the token was handed in to the cage/lift operator,which was then placed on the numbered board,that corresponded with that number,if there was any missing tallies,they were still down the pit,maybe this system could be modified and used ?
regards paddy
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By patrick carr
back again,
Remeber the tv series "the man from UNCLE" they used the same sort of system,
regards
paddy
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By John Lewis
In my last role we had a 52 acre site with a million square feet of floor speace. Each of the dozen or so buildings had its own alarm system which would go into full alarm in the event of a fire. The buildings adjacent to it would go into intermittent alarm to warn the occupants that there was a fire "next door".
Roll calls by each supervisor were reported to the manager and thence to the gate house, by radio and runner, almost always before the 'Brigade turned up. The record was less than four minutes from alarm to notfication at the gate.
Good Supervisors doing their job properly was the key in our application.
John
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Tabs
Lloyd wrote: "If the Brigade are leaving , why carry on the roll call !"
Obviously because we loved wasting time and didn't have a brain cell to think about stopping and just going back in ... (yes, I am being sarchastic).
We didn't carry on, I was simply saying that the process was often incomplete. Some of this is not down to numbers but to a reluctance to report persons missing without having done checks, rechecks, mobile phone call, and asking in other areas (so dividing the process into smaller units doesn't always work).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Lloyd Cole
The definition of "Continuing"
is by oxford dictionary ;
(Remaining in force or being carried on without letup.)
Tabs said
We didn't carry on, I was simply saying that the process was often incomplete.
Lloyd said
"oh no you didnt, you said continuing" as below
In my experience, manual roll-calls are never quick enough, and they are continuing as the brigade leave ...
Sarcasm may be the intent, but good old English language and its understanding always premiers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Lloyd Cole
Its all gone silent over there, its all gone silent over there.
Oh its all gone silent, its all gone silent, its all gone silent over there...........
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Tabs
It's all gone quiet because I am working ..
"as the fire brigade is leaving" not beyond, sadly not all of us are hero status, so things happen at human speed, not super-human speed. If you had ever been involved in large site logistics you would know what you are talking about.
Seldom are the evacuation points in full view of the tenders. Seldom are those doing the roll call watching the tender like hawks.
Quite often there is a small delay between tenders leaving and the all clear being given as alarm systems have to be reset and emergency doors closed. Security officers have to be recalled and positioned to check passes as people re-enter.
Nobody in my experience stops the roll call. They simply give the all clear message when things are ready.
Being pedantic is smart if you can work it.
"Sarcasm may be the intent, but good old English language and its understanding always premiers." Look up "premiers" in Oxford.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Gabe
Oh dear.......time to evacuate the thread.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By IOSH Moderator
And on that happy note the thread has now been locked by the moderators as we have deviated from the original discussion point.
Regards
Jonathan
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.