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Posted By PDA
Just wondering if anyone has this qualification? If so, how strenuous a task was it to achieve?
I am also looking at the S301..
Anyone with information or opinion on the subject would be appreciated.
(To be honest, my research into the modules is minimal so far. Just hoping for a personal opinion on the subject to get me started)
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Posted By Ben Middleton
Hi
I have not done the course, but the company I work for, RPS do offer P402 training courses.
Basically, it is a 3 day course and on the last day, an invigilator from BOHS comes in to do the written exam and practical. Our pass rate is good, but it is quite an intensive course if your background is not in the asbestos field.
Thanks
Ben
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Posted By Ron Hunter
I'm pretty sure you'll also have to submit a type 2 survey Report to MDHS100 standards to be awarded the certificate.
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Posted By Chris L
A lot depends on the trainer - I used to work for a company that provided 402 training when the courses first came into being. We took on a 17 year old straight out of school as a lab tech, and as an experiment put her through the 402 in her first week with the company - she passed.
If you have experience within the field you should pass easily. If you don't, just pay attention & do your reading and you'll be fine.
You will have to submit two survey reports within 6 months of passing the multiple choice exam, but they don't have to be for a client as such.
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Posted By NickW
its not so easy to pass the P402 nowadays. With a fair bit of reading around you have a good chance of getting through the multi-choice written assessment, however you are unlikely to be able to blag your way through the practical assessment side. The practical will involve a mixture of questions and mock-exercises such as use of PPE and taking samples. Unless you have experience of sampling or using PPE, you are likely to be all fingers and thumbs so would advice practicing before hand. Following the completion of the practical and written, you are required to submitt two asbestos survey reports for assessment. Word of caution - BOHS are familiar with the survey formats used by the main players in the asbestos surveying industry, if you ever consider using someone elses report for 'inspiration' purposes.
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Posted By NickW
S301 is considered to be the highest calibre qualification, especially if the complimentary oral exam is taken.
However IME most people pass the written parts but dont go for the oral exam as you really need to know your stuff to get through this (sitting in front of a panel of three industry experts firing questions at you). You dont need to be expert on all areas but as they told me back in the day when I sat mine that you must have 'no significant gaps' in knowledge to pass. Therefore you can be an expert on surveying or clearance testing but if you cant explain the details of bulk ID or the relevent law (HSWA, CAR, CDM etc) then you will seriously struggle. Most asbestos labs (including us) dont put their new starters through the S301, as under UKAS rules its not enough to do field work without the oral exam so they just put their people on the individual P-modules instead.
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Posted By PDA
Thank you all for your responses.
I think a little more work will have to go into my research now. The 402 sounds/seems like a good route to go down.
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Posted By CW
I have the P402, and to be honest for such a serious subject I was very surprised that I didn't find it as taxing as expected. That is not to say that it was a breeze, just not what I expected.
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Posted By PDA
CW, How recent did you sit the 402? Just wondering as i note somebody earlier in the thread saying it was not such a doddle in recent years.
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Posted By Dave Wilson
I completed this a couple of years ago (just to see what our surveyors had learned) and there was 15 on the course and 8 of them had been sent there by the Jam Roll Office (Benefits) and they all seemed to pass.
The course is quite straight forward however putting together the Survey reports after may be a problem if you do not work in or for the asbestos industry
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Posted By Chris121
i did the 402 course about a year ago.
i work as a consultant so had some prior knowledge of asbestos but found the course very comprhensive - lots of revision needed as its crammed in over 3 days with 2 exams, and then 2 completed reports must be submitted to BOHS within 3 months to obtain the proficiency certificate.
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Posted By PDA
The '2 exams'...are they full written exams or as i think i seen mentioned are they multiple choice? what sort of time in length are the exams?
Has anyone who has done the 402 done the NEBOSH General Certificate and can compare the 2 in revision and exam stress?
I have done my General you see.
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Posted By Richard Bradbury
I completed the p402 a few years ago. I was at the time an asbestos removal supervisor. I am now a project manager within the removal industry. I found the course straightforward as I was aware of most of it prior to attending through every day work. The course was 15 strong or so and I was shocked to be the only one from the industry on it. Possibly explains the amount of poor surveys knocking about. All the information is covered in the course though so don't be too worried by it. As any course I advise some prior reading - The Control of Asbestos regs 2006 Approved codes of practice and guidance(available via HSE £13.50)
I haven't attended a NEBOSH course as yet although I am due on General one later this year so I can't really comment on that one. I have attended IOSH Managing Safely which was similar I suppose in effort required if that's what your looking at. I would get some time under your belt within a working asbestos related company before attempting the S301 in order to have a chance of passing. You would realistically have to gain a few 'lesser' qualifications prior to attending and gain experience using those quals to be considering that course.
If you are looking at a career path in the industry game and wish to gain the qualifications and experience there are analytical/project management companies that will train you from scratch up through the various qualifications.
Hope this helps in some way
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Posted By Chris L
There's no comparison to NEBOSH.
To be blunt, the 402 makes you a competent surveyor in the same way a plastic badge from a Christmas Cracker makes you a Sheriff.
45 multiple choice questions, a pretend practical and two mailed in reports do not a competent surveyor make.
Forgive my cynicism but I'm dealing with the consequences of surveys performed by people with 402's & 6 months experience.
Anyway, back to the original thrust of the thread, and yes, pay attention, read up in the evening and you should pass with ease.
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Posted By NickW
Chris L, I like your xmas cracker badge analogy. Many has been the time where I have seen someone with a business card embossed with 'Asbestos Management Consultant' based on the strength of a P402. But try telling the clients this! The amount of tenders I have gone for where the criteria is 'surveyors must have BOSH P402' as virtually the sole technical criterion is staggering and it makes my blood boil!
Only know after the horse has bolted and all the dodgy surveys have been carried out are clients starting to specify the need for an adequate quality system as evidenced by UKAS accreditation to ISO 107020 for organisations or personal accreditatation via ISO 17024.
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Posted By Chris L
Hi Nick - don't get me started on UKAS labs ;-)
Im now requesting (insisting) on the CV's and relevant experience of the actual surveyors who will be visiting site (Not the highly qualified manager who sells the services) and making it quite clear that on receipt of the survey report I will be walking over the building and checking it over.
I've had to call people back for a second attempt a couple of times but the message is getting through.
This apporach applies equally to clearance testing too.
In my opinion you need 12 months of varied experience before you're close to being ready for leading a large survey, and even after 17 years looking for the stuff I still find products and uses I'd not encountered before.
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Posted By NickW
Chris I dont blame you. However most clients IME just want 'a survey' and are not prepared to put any time and effort themselves into making sure it is suitable and sufficient.
There are two sides to this argument. Firstly, I agree with you that just because its got the UKAS badge doesnt mean its a good survey, far from it. However its at least a starting point and will mean that the surveyor in question has been audited and is repeatedly audited for the type of site they are signed off to do. The only positive side is that the industry is now more mature and surveyors we have at our firm have accrued 6 years plus experience (we only let the newer ones loose on housing stock).
However a critical issue here (as addressed by the draft new MDHS 100) is the importance of the client getting involved, assisting with the desk-top study, providing keys and generally providing information to assist the surveyor. Its the sample principle as is applied in the new CDM regs ie the client has the greatest influence over the standard of work in practice and results acheived.
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Posted By NickW
We dont send out surveyors to do even the most simple housing stock surveys until they have spent 6-12 months supervising an experienced surveyor. P402 does not equal competence. That only comes with experience.
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Posted By NickW
Sorry should read 'supervised BY..' not 'supervising'. That would be an interesting meeting to go to with the client when the first few surveys started coming through. Oh for an edit function for fingers and thumbs people like me!
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Posted By Chris L
Morning Nick. You're quite right and in all my years as a surveyor if I got the keys from the client on the first day I considered myself lucky, much less desktop surveys, old records etc.
Now I'm on the other side of the fence I try to give the surveyors as much assistance as I can, without leading them by the nose - although I check the surveys upon reciept I'd rather they find it all before report submission as it's to the benefit of all parties.
UKAS is certainly essential, but again clients need to understand that it is not a guarantee, just (as the assessors say themselves) a snapshot on the day of the assessment that the correct systems are in place. There are some very good UKAS consultancies and some absolute stinkers....
You sound like you have a good company ethos regarding surveyors - you don't travel up to the North of Scotland do you? ;-)
(BTW love the thought of new surveyors supervising an experienced guy for a year! Mind you, I've been shown up by more than one trainee in the past saying 'well what's that then?'.....)
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Posted By Chinwe Okeke The company I work for is looking for asbestos removal company to contract for the removal of asbestos in the company. Can anyone recommend a reputable company(ies). I can be contacted on aparanta_c@yahoo.co.uk. Thank you.
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