Posted By SeanP
We often purchase buy the same bulk chemicals from different suppliers and have noticed recently that the first aid and spill procedures differ. Sometimes the difference is subtle; other times it's varies a bit, particularly the first aid measures for ingestion and inhalation. This obviously creates an issue for our First Aiders....

Anyone come across this before, and if so, how did you deal with it?

cheers,
Sean

Posted By Raymond Rapp
Sean

It has been commented on previous threads that the quality and accuracy of MSDS often leave a lot be desired. I have recently procured the services of a well known consultancy to provide COSHH Assessments, which also include PPE, health monitoring controls, environmental information etc. All this is available via an online data base.

If you want the details and cost I will be happy to forward them to you if you contact me direct. I have no commercial interest in the company.

Regards

Ray

Posted By garyh
This business about what RPE to use could be correct for both MSDS's - you need to assess what assigned protection factor (APF) is required from the RPE.

This will depend on several things - the 2 MSDS's may be based on different interpretation of the type of spillage to be dealt with.

In reality, you have to do a COSHH assessment and determine the APF required (I know, COSHH hierarchy of control first). This then determines the type of mask required.

People sometimes expect too much of the MSDS - it is a document that tries to cover every situation - which is impossible.

It is up to the end user to assess the risks and specify the control measures such as RPE. The MSDS is by definition a DATA SHEET!

Posted By David Bannister
SeanP and others, the experiences and opinions expressed here confirm what a regular occupational hygienist poster has repeatedly said: MSDS's are unreliable and merely may give some indication of hazards and risks associated with a substance.

They are not produced for COSHH Regs but for Transport of Dangerous Substances legislation. They are also often wrong.

If in doubt, seek competent advice. That may not be forthcoming from the sales department of suppliers but may be available elsewhere in their organisation. Digging it out is an artform. Alternatively, speak to an Occ. Hygienist.

Posted By Chris Packham
As David has said, safety data sheets are for "supply" to comply with CHIP. They are not issued for COSHH and can be a totally inappropriate source of hazard data for a risk assessment. Equally any advice re PPE is for the product 'as supplied' and may be again inappropriate for the product 'as used'.

You have a right to the information about hazards of the product as used. Just take a look at section 6-1 of the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 where the supplier is required by law to provide sufficient information that the product can be used safely for the purposes for which it has been supplied. This is a very different requirement from that for the safety data sheet.

As a simplistic example take two substances that you are going to mix. The safety data sheet for one states R12 (highly flammable), the other R8 (may cause combustion in a flammable substance). How might you treat the mixture? The answer is that you might use it to put out a fire!!! Hydrogen (R12) + Oxygen (R8) = H20 = Water.

Recently I carried out a skin exposure audit for a large print works. I collected 7 safety data sheets from one department. Every one was wrong. If you had followed the advice you would have been putting your workforce at risk. Incidentally, all the chemicals in question came from large national suppliers. Perhaps this is why I sometimes state that I file safety data sheets under works of fiction!

Chris

Posted By Chris Packham
Paul

Agreed. However, for brevity I did not go into detail (which I do when I talk about this on our course) about how the two substances would be combined. The aim was merely to show that when two substances are mixed together the individual safety data sheets may no longer indicate the true hazards.

I could as easily have quoted other examples of where mixing substances results in different hazards (both greater and smaller) appearing. I could also show examples of safety data sheets where the constituents listed had risk phrases that appeared to require extensive protective measures costing a great deal whereas in reality none of the constituents was bioavailable and therefore the preparation presented actually very little hazard and could safely be handled with no PPE.

Incidentally, on a lighter note, one of the constituents of a cup of tea carries the risk phrase R22 (Harmful if ingested)!

Chris