Posted By Thos G
Hello Brando, get your self a copy of the 'brown book' the SRSC regs.
In relation to disruptive/negativity the best way to counteract this is through education. Encourage them to partake in the TU education programme for safety reps.
Safety reps are entitled to attend bonafide safety committees.
Generally the amount of safety reps can be decided by the size of the workforce and the diversity of jobs within the workplace. I worked in a construction repairs business that employed 700 people. We had a safety rep from each of the TUs represented at work i.e. 5.
Its no good talking M&E stuff to a scaffolder and vice versa.
Bear in mind that oversized committees dont work well.

Posted By Lilian McCartney
Hi Brando,

we have more safety reps than who comes to the H&S Committee. A constitution was agreed with members nos (including mgt side, advisers, guests (which may include a safety rep with a particular interest in an agenda item), remit etc.

A code of conduct could be written for members but I expect that employees would have this anyway when on work business.

Our Working groups on reviewing procedures/policies are not necessarily made up of H&S Comm members either but interested parties from whole organisation - whether TU safety reps/members or not.

Lilian

Posted By Peter Farrell
I come from a union background but now work for a different company as an advisor, set the committee members and stick to it, support the unions in training etc and know the 'brown book' once you atart working together and they see that health and safety is transparent quite often they settle and work with you rather than against.
When I started this role the unions although elected didn't get involved, I encouraged them to train, carryout inspections and attend the meetings they no longer fight against me but will often seek my advise how we can work together for the safety of all. I am not saying it's easy or without confrontation at times but stick at it and you may find they become an asset

Posted By Brando
Thanks all for your comments.

One of the problems I have is two individuals who are basically disruptive and negative, agressive and rude.

Frankly, I don't think educating them is worth the effort even if it were possible. They are just simply anti-management and fit my mental picture of a typical union rep ( my mental picture is probably unfair but, well there you go ).

I'll download the black book and give it a look.
thanks
Brando

Posted By Ron Hunter
Brando, you state reps "voted in by the members". Safety Reps have to be appointed. They should have a letter of appointment from their TU.
I'm not Union bashing either, but surely it would be reasonable to take the matter up with the TU itself. All TUs have the same ethos of improving H&S through consultation NOT confrontation. Maybe they can help?

Posted By Jeffrey Watt
I would echo Ron's sentiment re a strong chair, I'm 19 stone and need a strong chair all the time.

In my twenties (years, not stones this time) I was a full time seconded officer for a public sector union. That experience tells me some reps are sensible, some are not. Some managers are sensible, some are not. Some safety bods are sensible and some are not.

Good advice above re tight constitution for your committee, and having the TU communicate who is appointed.

Kind regards

Jeff

Posted By jervis
Hello Brandon ref your question on union safety reps . First of all can i say i am a union health and safety rep just recently qualified as an IOSH TEC this gained by completing Union safety courses and TUC ones.
Safety reps are there for there members as there are a lot of dodgy companies out there you dont take health and safety serious enough.
I my self work for the NHS as a senior support worker and also a Union health and safety officer. I take my role very seriously and sit on all levels of management meetings and have 4 safety reps who also work with me. Decent Union safety reps save company's money and promote a safer workplace where safety reps are based. If you have a couple of bad ones in your company i would suggest you speak to there Union branch . I can assure there are just as many bad managers out there who do nothing for health and safety issue.
With Regards
Joe Collinson
Unite Health and Safety Officer
joecollinson40@yahoo.co.uk

Posted By patrick carr
Hi

Brando, for someone who is not having a go at unions you seem to be doing a very good job.

What's with this "they aren't worth educating" the TUC has perfectly good tutors without you having to don another hat.

Then you state "fit your mental picture of a typical union rep".

By the way it,s a Brown book people were telling you to obtain, not a Black one.

However i like how you signed off your post, "very few people who are elected to any position in life get there by being unselfish, it,s the will for power". If there are any vacancies arising at your estd, don't ring me i'll ring you.

regards

paddy

Posted By D H
Is it me getting old or has the English Dictionary changed recently?

The amount of grammatical and spelling mistakes on this posting is (to my eyes) extreme.

This begs the question - who are the posters?

Are they truly well educated Union Reps, Safety professionals, or just people trying to stir the dirt and have a verbal attack at other posters just because they are able to?

Standing by for a tirade of abuse!!

Dave

Posted By jervis
Dave i wish i was as perfect as you obviousely nothing better to do than check spelling mistakes.

Posted By jervis
To John if last message was towards me may i aplogize. I have been a Union safety rep for around 6years and for that have been suspended 6 times and redeyployed at least 4 times. i worked hard at getting my IOSH TECH which i am very proud of . I get a bit peed of when people tend to have a go at Union safety reps as they have an important role to play in the work place.

Posted By patrick carr
Hi all
Firstly i must convey my sincere apologies if i may of offended anyone by my remarks. I am in the same frame of mind as Jervis, i am very passionate in my role as a UCATT safety rep.

I have been a shop steward for over 10 years where the consensus is management versus employee. However with the undertaking of the role of Union safety rep,in my experience it is a joint effort on behalf of all concerned to reduce accidents and ill health at the workplace.I have been employed by the same company for 30 years, and i have a great working relationship with all levels of management.

I have had 70 days of TUC accredited training within the last 3 years. In march 2008 i subscribed out of my own funds for IOSH membership. On receipt of my TUC access certificate in occupational Health & Safety i am entitled to upgrade to TECH iosh. I joined IOSH to gain knowledge from people associated with the Institution.

In 2005 i was UCATT (northern region) safety rep of the year. In 2005 i was nominated for TUC safety rep of the year. After a accident on one of our sites, where a worker fell through a unguarded stairwell our company was prosecuted by the HSE,a hefty fine was imposed.
I was approached by the company H&S manager in order to try and resolve this problem that occurs during the construction of a dwelling. I devised a system that was adopted throughout our company.And yes Josh i am a scaffolder, and we can talk about M&E anytime you want.

As i have been involved more and more with IOSH discussion forums, i do realise that my grammatical skills could be improved, however at this stage in my role as safety rep i am prioritising, there was still 77 construction worker fatalities in 2006/07. The need for amicable relationships between Employers and Trade Unions is a must to try and achieve a robust Health and Safety management system, that can reduce the accident, illness and fatalities that do occur in the workplace.

When i start my CPD maybe a skills for life course from the TUC will count as a professional career development course?

best regards
paddy
UCATT safety rep

Posted By Brando
All,

Thanks for those who have responded - the thread seems to have gone at a tangent which may be my fault ( ! ).

The problem I have is not me or my other Managers or the Union but a couple of disruptive members of the Union.If Union readers of this thread can't accept that they have some bad apples then so be it - not my concern if people want to hide heads in the sand or be over sensitive.

I accept that some Union members do good work - we have some of them here to prove it. err...umm is that anti union?

Brando ( not Brandon! )

Posted By Peter Farrell
Dave,

when I completed the TUC cert. it was considered a higher qualification than the NEBOSH cert and still is.

Posted By jervis
Dear Andrew Union reps are entitled to sit on safety commitees and do not HAVE TO BE INVITED they are also entitled to set up a commitee if one is not up and running as they have safety reps putting it forward this must be done i think with in 3 months of asking.

Posted By jervis
My understanding is union safety reps can attend any safety committees if they put in writing !

Posted By ITK
I dont believe every eleted safety rep has the right to sit on all safety committe meetings, it depends on the constitution of that particular committee.

There are usually equal numbers of management and reps therefore it may not be possible for every rep to sit on the committee.

Also ust to be pedantic the SRSC Regulations are actually 1977 not '76.

Posted By Pete48
ITK, correction noted, my error and as it is a legal reference I don't think it is pedantic to correct me.
My excuse, it was such a long hot summer, my bones were much younger and I could still listen to very loud music. It obviously left a lasting impression in my mind.