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Posted By Gilly Hi - our Church is continuing it's H&S update and we keep coming back to the same issue of first aid training. We have no 'regular' members of staff who could be trained in event of incident and we also have a complete mixture of attendees at various times of day and evening. Obviously, on a Sunday morning we can have up to 300 people in the building and within the congregation there are up to date, first aid trained drs and nurses (approximately 4-6 of them at any one Sunday gathering) We have a very current first aid trained specialist nurse, who has offered to train some more non-medical persons for us (to make sure we are all singing from the same hymn sheet - sorry, couldn't resist!) Would this be sufficient, not acceptable or indeed would this be overkill - would the drs and nurses 'as they are' suffice?
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Posted By MikeP Hi Gilly.
I would say that if you have Doctors & Nurses available to caryout your first-aid requirements then you should consider using their expertise.
However you should also look at whether their action will be covered by their own professional insurance or the church's insurance as they are not employed by the church itself.
Sorry I could not be more help.
Mike
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Posted By Tabs There are a few angles to this...
Firstly, no legal requirement exists - so the decision is up to whoever runs the location and associated events.
Large special events are a separate issue, and can be covered by reference to the Purple Guide (sorry, real title evades me, but you can look it up on the HSE website).
For a normal congregation Sunday, it sounds like the presence of doctors and nurses would suffice - so long as they were willing to agree to being 'on call' for you.
If (by the sounds of it) the doctors and nurses would rather share that obligation, there is no law stopping a qualified person providing guidance in First Aid informally (there IS a law preventing this in the 'workplace' to employees though).
Finally, consider the type of first aid you might need and consider the response times of the local ambulance service. I would suggest that you are looking at slips, trips and falls - and people being taken unwell.
For the first, simple first aid is easy to teach - for people being taken unwell it is a little more complex. Talk to the warders etc and see if they would like to help and be trained and take it from there.
You might also like to contact the local St John Ambulance, or Red Cross and see if they would like to provide a presence.
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer How many people are at work during the services, suggest only one, the vicar, in general cases, although a college states there are a few more at his church. That being the case the First Aid at Work Regs would not apply. However, there would be a strong case for general first aid to be available considering the size of the congregation. As there is not legal status for first aiders outside the workplace and attending church is not compulsory, how can you lay down any minimum requirements without employing first aiders and making thier attendance compulsory.
Why not try a purely voluntary thing, as you have doctors and nurses attending would the first aiders you do have take a back seat and leave the care to a professional anyway. Can't see your problem really.
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Posted By Gilly Hi - thanks for the responses, some interesting points made. Mike - you were a help, thanks. I presume our PI insurance would cover them but will check. Tabs - could you tell me the law preventing the 'workplace first aid guidance/training' please - we are classed as a workplace and our volunteers (as only 3 are paid!) are effectively employees and hence covered under H&S law (although for the purposes of a Sunday service, most would be Joe public) We are well served by ambulances (their holding points are nearby) and realistically we would probably call one ASAP. Wardens don't want to be trained - at the moment they don't even want to aid in fire evacuations but that's another story entirely!! St John ambulance are happy to provide their services for a vastly large fee - hence the dilemma.
Bob - interesting point! During the services there are approximately 30 persons 'at work' - ministers, sound/lighting lot, wardens, refreshments lot, group leaders etc, etc. As a general rule though approximately 150 of the 300 congregation are active 'volunteers' (and therefore employees for H&S) so the complete lack of first aid doesn't sit well.
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Posted By SBH May seem a strange question but I will bet that not all doctors and nurses are qualified first aiders per say
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Posted By Gilly Thanks Tabs. SBH - yes, that has also been part of the problem, although I suspect that they could deal with most of the incidents which would occur without too much trouble (well - in theory!!)
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