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#1 Posted : 06 July 2008 17:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By ClaireL
Just a quickie to make sure I'm right (or wrong!)

I'm thinking guidance on frequency of electrical installation checks for hotels is yearly. Is that right?
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#2 Posted : 06 July 2008 18:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By ezee
Hi,

Are you talking about fixed wire testing?
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#3 Posted : 06 July 2008 18:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By ClaireL
Yes. Fixed wire. Commonly referred to as the electrical installation.
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#4 Posted : 06 July 2008 19:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter
Claire

Routine check annually; inspection and test every five years.

Paul
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#5 Posted : 07 July 2008 07:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By John D Crosby
Hi Claire
If the hotel has an Entertainments Licence e.g. for music and dancing, that licence usually requires an annual inspection and testing to prove the system is safe. This testing must be carried out by a competent organisation and a certificate issued.
Take care
John C
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#6 Posted : 07 July 2008 09:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Interested on what basis that requirement is made John.
An annual full-blown test and inspection seems like an unecessary financial burden. What would be so wrong with a current certificate with a recommendation for next inspection as declared by a competent electrician?
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#7 Posted : 07 July 2008 10:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By John D Crosby
Hi Ron
The annual inspection was always a requirement for premises with certain licences, in particular an Entertainments Licence. The requirement was set by Local Authorities who deemed that it was necessary to ensure safety in such premises. It was not so easily challenged as the LA would just refuse to renew the license whilst the challenge was being made which effectively meant that it was cheaper to comply. The rules do vary from one LA to another but this one seemed to be common to all. No-one ever convinced me of the need for annual testing.
John C
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#8 Posted : 07 July 2008 10:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By PBH
Hi Claire,

Just to clarify that there is no longer such a thing as an public entertainments licence (PEL) as these have been replaced by the Licensing Act (2003?).

There is no 'legal' requirement for fixed installation testing other than the general duties under EAW regs 89 to maintain systems.

Generally it would be up to the business proprietor to show that the system is maintained and I would agree that regular visual inspection and 5 yearly examination would suffice (I believe that this is in guidance some where but can't remember- doh).

I seem to remember that there are also 'plug socket' testers. See www.hse.gov.uk and look up electricity. Which also may be an inexpensive addition to visual checks.

Regards

Paul
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#9 Posted : 07 July 2008 11:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT
Claire

The IEE Wiring Regulations are non-statutory, and are a code of practice widely recognised and accepted throughout the UK,compliance with the IEE is 'likely' to achieve compliance with relevant aspects of the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 which as you know say you will but not how often.

IEE guidance note 3 'suggests' 3 yearly for Hotels; this however should not be seen as definitive on the subject of a Hotel, as there is bound to be some Hotels with stages, lighting etc which should be classed as a more frequent requirement.

You won't find anywhere where it says 'you must inspect/test etc your fixed wiring installation annually/12 monthly' and so on, apart from perhaps just one place!

The terms of your insurance policy from the under writers; it is likely but not definite that you will be required to test/inspect annually, in which case you don't have a lot of choice other than to do it.

My own thoughts on your question, and related to anyone else thinking about this type of inspection, is to break it down into 20% sections and cover the entire premises over a 5 year period; this is a common practice throughout industry and does 'slightly' off-set the cost to annually rather than a large 5 yearly; personally I prefer the annual system and have this in place throughout the plethora of commercial premises I look after (no Hotels though)

Places of Public Entertainment may be of interest to you as part of the Hotel may be just that, and will then be considered annually for that part; as with 'most' descriptive requirements, the final decision comes down to the person/s responsible for achieving compliance either to legislative or best practice means.

The answer therefore (as far as guidance goes) is yes and no;-)

CFT

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#10 Posted : 07 July 2008 12:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By PBH
CFT

Hate to pedantic, but the PEL regime is no longer available and has been replaced by premises licences, which are indefinite, not annual. This change occurred under The Licensing Act 2003.

The LA 2003 guidance states that licensing conditions cannot be used to enforce other legislation e.g. HASAWA etc.

It was obviously the IEE Cop I was referring to earlier - thanks CFT.

Kind regards

Paul
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#11 Posted : 07 July 2008 12:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT
Hi Paul

Don't worry, your not being pedantic; I should have said 'places of public entertainment' per se, and not given the impression I was making reference to anything other than just that.

CFT
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#12 Posted : 08 July 2008 08:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By ClaireL
Yes I am aware that IEE regs are guidance only etc etc etc. But it is the guidance that everyone works to.

Now I have several different answers from different people so am less sure of a correct answer than I was before!!! One year...three years...five years..is everyone guessing?

This is just a small hotel that has some weddings but nothing more.

Can anyone advise what the current IEE regs advise for frequency of inspection and testing of electrical installations in hotels please?

Thanks
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#13 Posted : 08 July 2008 08:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT
Claire

3 yearly.

CFT
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#14 Posted : 08 July 2008 09:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By ClaireL
Thank you! :-)
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#15 Posted : 08 July 2008 10:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter
CFT

Is the three-yearly interval from guidance note 3 to BS7671? My copy states five yearly (hence my response).

Paul
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#16 Posted : 08 July 2008 12:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By CFT
Paul

Your right as far as guidance note 3 goes it is indeed 5 yearly. I can find nothing authoritative to support the earlier posting I made of 3 yearly other than a change of occupancy at 3 years or come to that whenever.

Apologies Claire.

CFT
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#17 Posted : 08 July 2008 12:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By ClaireL
aaggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

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#18 Posted : 08 July 2008 12:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Glyn Atkinson
Just to perhaps confuse you more, Claire, and apologies for that, .... but, ask your insurers what period of time they are stipulating for insurance purposes.

Our five yearly checks have now been upgraded to three yearly to comply with the insurers' new risk programme with fire safety in mind amd also business loss prevention procedures.

They did not state the shortened period change against any legislation, just from their business perspective of claims reporting from recent cases.
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#19 Posted : 08 July 2008 16:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By ClaireL
I am only a consultant to the hotel. They don't believe they have ever had their electrics checked and so the insurers don't really appear to be on the ball on that one!!

Most of the premises I deal with are factories where 5 year checks are the norm. I seemed to remember that Hotels required more frequent checks.

In this case it would appear many people are equally unsure.

Oh well. I have said 5 yearly now. Fingers crossed.
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