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Posted By PC
What is the current requirement for evacuating a person with mobility problems.
Situation
Employeee working on 14th floor of a multi occupancy building has mobility problems and can not walk down stairs.
Company offered to purcahse evac chair and train fire marshalls to use - employee doesn't feel safe being taken down stairs like this and panics (additional risk of injury).
Person cannot physically walk down 14 flights even with help.
What else can the employer do other than tell the person to wait in the protected ( 3hr protection) lobby (with a buddy) and the fire marshal informs the evacuation controller of their location and for the emeregency servcies to rescue the person?
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Posted By MPL
At the risk of stating the obvious, the rescue service would generally place the person in an evac chair (or similar) and carry them down the stairs... In the event that this is not an option then it would be a window, ladder/hoist (14 stories!!!) job.
Sounds like an impasses to me... and the employee may have to review their feelings, the employes appears to have done everthing possible to fulfill the obligations required of them in this regard and would likely be supported if the required the employee to relocate based on the H&S concerns raised. I'm assuming that this is NOT why you ask the question.
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Posted By Aileen
My question is “Does the company occupy only the 14th floor so the employee cannot be relocated to another part of the building?”
In my experience Evac chairs do tend to make the person being evacuated feel quite unsafe and, even with the appropriate training, fire marshals would not be using them regularly and therefore their skill levels may not be as high as those, say, of fire/ambulance staff. However, given the choice between waiting in a lobby (albeit 3hr protected) or being evacuated, I know which one I’d go for.
Additionally, the company would need to consult with the Fire Service to see whether they would be prepared to evacuate an individual member of staff in this instance when they would otherwise be tackling the fire. In my particular workplace they will not do this and insist that staff members are suitably trained to carry persons in wheelchairs/Evac chairs to allow them to do the job they are trained for. They will of course rescue people in genuine need!
Aileen
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Posted By Edward Shyer
PC
Your last paragraph is a no no! It is the responsibility of the employer to evacuate all employees- not the emergency services.
Have you discussed an alternative with the effected employee as to another method of evacuating them.
If no alternative can be found then you only have one option which at the end of the day has been deemed a suitable method of evacuating people with mobility difficulties.
Just out of curiosity why would you use fire marshals for using the evac chair? would they not be carrying out other duties at the onset of the evacuation?
Regards
Ted
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Posted By Derek Housley
As said it is the employers responsibility to put in suitable and sufficient arrangements to evacuate the disabled person from the building, see BS 5588 part 8
If the lift is an evacuation lift / fire-fighting lift(i.e. two power supplies / double lobby doors) it might be possible to use the lift for evacuation purposes? but consult with the Fire Authority.
It is reported that Evacuation chairs were successfully used in the twin towers from around 70 floors. A couple of trained persons will be able to evacuate a person by using an evacuation chair over 14 floors in an emergency.
Your fire risk assessment under the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) order, should address the issue and a PEEP or GEEP ( personal / generic emergency evacuation plan), should be supportive documents tothe fire risk assessment.
Regular use of the chair, say down one flight of stairs, by the "volunteers" identified under the PEEP, taking different roles, will build up confidence in the equipment and an enhancement of technique making for a smoother ride.
Remember the refuge is a temporary holding area, until the staircase has cleared, and the "assisted" evacuation can take place.
The points you raise are valid and should be addressed and not ignored.
Best Wishes
Derek Housley
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Posted By Clive Buckley
I agree with Derek's comments.
In the government department in which I work we occupy many high-rise buildings and our occupancy is rarely on the ground floor (sometimes it doesn't extend below the 5th floor). We use either manual evac chairs and battery operated ones (the latter much more user-friendly for both operators and occupants!) and have dedicated operators who are not fire marshals. They receive regular training.
The onus is on the employer to evacuate all occupants; refuge areas should not be used to "park" mobility-impaired people, expecting the fire service to get them out.
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Posted By mike morland
So you may have a protection lobby (3 hours), but who is going to be the person that draws the short straw to 'buddy' this employee as the place burns.
The reality of this is that this person is relaying their concerns in a time of calm. They will no doubt jump on the chair in a time of crisis shouting' 'Get me outta here' and will overcome their fear.
Perhaps if there are no alternatives then get the approved chair and train people to use it. A the very least you have made the necessary arrangements.
Regards
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Posted By Bob Shillabeer
To say it is the responsibility of the building owner to get all people out including those with mobility problems is not absolutely correct. The fire service will readily rescue anyone they believe is in danger as a result of fire. Yes it is the role of the building operatot to evacuate everyone from the building as far as possible but the fire brigade will readily rescue those who acnnot be evacuated for whatever reason. The first rule in the cas of a fire is get everyone out, if that is not possible make sure you know where everyone who cannot escape is and advise the senior fire officer, he will then decide the best cause of action from there, they know best in these situations.
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Posted By Edward Shyer
Bob,
I don't recall the building owner being mentioned as having a responsibility to ensure that people are evacuated (but stand to be corrected)
As I said earlier it is the employers responsibility to evacuate all their employees in the event of an emergency. While I agree the fire service will enter and evacuate people who are having difficulties getting out of the building. It is not to be used as a reason not to evacuate an employee with mobility issues.
The employer has a duty of care to all his employees and as such must have in place a plan to evacuate all his employees in the event of an emergency evacuation. If the only method of providing that duty is the use of evac chairs then the reality is that the individual has a duty to co-operate and use the equipment provided.
Regards
Ted
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Posted By water67.
Hi just to add re the employee. Whilst i sympathise with this employee and we have one similar we have had to make recourse to the following: It is clear in H&S regs that they have a duty to co-operate with the employer re H&S matters including fire safety/evacuation. At the end of the day you will have to manage the evacuation of this employee. That may in the end require a firmer view on co-operation.
Hope this helps.
cheers.
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Posted By willhiem I think you also need to take into account the fact that some people don’t like to be moved or cant be moved from their chair, it may cause them more pain and could end up perhaps injuring them, you would need to understand their condition first. the best solution is to provide an evactuation lift, increased fire protection and a seperate power supply, this can also be used as a fire lift. the installation of such lifts usually goes down well with planners and you can increase the building occupany. though yes it would be pretty darn expensive to retro fit one and in some cases it may not be worth it for only a couple of floors. A new novel method, which i posted on a similar topic lately can be found at... www.escaperescue.com
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