Rank: Guest 
|
Posted By Graeme Scott
Hello All
I work for a bus company who provided specific services for scholars as well as normal service work.
Since the introduction of the recent smoke free legislation we have had very little problems on our buses, except for some scholar services. The company fully comply with the HSE four points of advice for protecting employees from second hand smoke and do go that step further by having communication with the schools in question when a culprit can be identified.
However the minority who continue to smoke have got wise to the location of CCTV cameras and use the blind spots to smoke.
Obviously there is concern for our employees as well as the children who choose not to smoke.
There are seperate issues with simply banning culprits due to their age and naturally we wish to ensure that all travel to and from school safely on our vehicles.
Has anyone dealt with this or similar situation. What can the wise one's suggest as a reasonably practicable measure to take.
I would like to thank anyone in advance for any idea's or suggestion that they care to give me.
Graeme
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Bob Shillabeer
Am I understanding you correctly, these are school pupils smoking??? Simply report the issue to the school, they are the people responsible for managing the children and for stamping out the problem. Report it to your employer as well as they may need to state that those who persist on smoking may be refused a place on the bus, that will put the ball well and truly into the schools hands. Remember they are breaking the law and the school is legally responsible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Graeme Scott
Yes it is the school children that are smoking.
The school's (as there is more than one) are well informed with video footage when available and drivers do report incidents (Although I suspect its a case of some drivers report it and others don't!)
However it is a mine field to start to name, identify and exclude offenders due to their age, data protection and contract issues. What ever post incident measures can be taken the company readily take. This is still not enough as the incidents still occur. Most of the vehicles on these services are double deck and I would dare to bet that every smoking incident happens upstairs.
The Measures that have been suggested by drivers include escorts, but as these are not part of the contract, if we as a company were to turn down the work or ask for further funding our competitors would gladly jump in.
I do not think this is unique to ourselves but a problem that is industry based. I would love to know if anyone has found a suitable solution.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By MT
I would call your local authority and speak to their Smoke Control Officer (or whatever title they are using!) and ask them for advice. They may decide to undertake their own surveillance of your buses and issue Fixed Penalty Notices to the culprits.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Rob T
Sorry but I fail to see how this is an H&S problem. The anti smoking legislation was not made under any H&S laws!
Kids have smoked on the top decks of buses since buses were invented - not exactly something to get in a tizz about. Usual school disciplinary measures should be suffice - no-one is in any danger for crying out loud!
I'm sure there are a 101 other H&S matters that would be far more worthy of attention.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Ian_P
Bit Harsh!
Have to disagree Rob. Although not made under HASAWA, aren't the no-smoking laws are made under the Public HEALTH Order? You could argu that, by definition, this is a health and safety issue.
Besides, smoking affects the health, and safety, of bus drivers and passengers so, in my opinion, is a reasonable question that was well answered.
As safety (and health!) advisors a lot falls on our lap and we have a responsibility to advise as best we can, when we can. Ignoring pleas for help, and burying your head under the sand, just because it doesn't come under HASAWA shouldn't be what we are about.
"It's not a H&S issue" is a cry that raises it's head to often for my liking....
BR
Ian
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Pete48 Graeme, see these links for one approach by a local authority. http://www.cornwall.gov....ndex.cfm?articleid=10408Trying to control it on the bus may be problematical but you can report it and expect a response to be made by the relevant authority. The links both contain parental agreement forms that are very straighforward about the sanctions available and I see no reason why this should be a problem for you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Rob T
Enough this is embarrassing! Sorry but this has gone beyond a joke! IT'S KIDS DOING WHAT KIDS DO! Tell them off - tell the headteacher but for the love of sanity leave out legislation and bringing in the smoking police. Anyone would think that this was letting nuclear weapons off!
If this carries on I will send this link to the Daily Mail and The Sun etc. with the major heading of H&S really does go conkers bonkers and unfortunately for once it's the H&S professionals who have lost all sight of reality.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By MP
I'm with Rob T
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Bob Shillabeer
I see the point of it now its kids doing what kids will do, part of growing up. But there are some serious things to consider here. The way some comments such as kids will be kids or words to that effect does not cater the legal duty the bus operator has to prevent smoking on the bus because it effects the health of other passengers, so some sort of action is required. Get the head teacher to take action such as putting a member of staff on the bus to prevent smoking and dealing with those who do so on a regular basis. There is a means of stopping these offenders travelling on the bus, it has been used before. The bus operator also has a duty to act. Lets not just brush this under the tabel. By the way the effects of smoking are a health and safety concern.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Pete48
Rob T, you clearly feel quite strongly about this thread but it is about health and safety on a number of levels IMHO. Far from being a case of bonkers, conkers it is about sensible, responsible duty of care issues regarding children, their impact on other users of public services and indeed the drivers etc.
Your assertion that it is children doing what children do is, frankly, merely an excuse for doing nothing. The novel Lord of the Flies comes to mind as an example of what happens when children do what children do!
If you have children who use LEA provided school transport you would know that, in many LEA areas, as a parent you sign up to your child conforming to a code of conduct that includes not smoking on the bus.
So why would sending this thread to the Daily Mail show H&S has got potty?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Rob T
Pete
I don't think they're quite sticking the pig yet! or even breaking Piggy's glasses! When they do, that may be the time to take more serious action.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Pete48
Rob T, sadly they may well be in some places and maybe this is just chapter one in their story?
Not directly related to this subject but in light of recent publicity around knife crime?
The simple point for me is that it is against the codes of conduct that most if not all LEA insist is part of the child's use and access to the provided transport.
The transport company must reasonably be able to rely upon the sanctions available. Just accepting their bad behaviour cannot ever be an option, it condones breaking rules, violating other peoples rights and does nothing to allow the positive development of our children.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Graeme Scott
Thanks everyone I think that contact with the local authority and maybe the LEA may be the next step.
Pete48 thanks for those links I'll try and see if our local LA's have similar codes of conduct.
Rob T being a smoker myself I do understand your point of view (I'm not implying that you are smoker though) however the attitude of "kids do what kids do" does not take anyone any further forward. Telling the headmaster is not the threat that it was when I was at school, and I dare say it will be the same for yourself. A sad reflection on today society.
I believe this is the forum to discuss these issues BEFORE calling in the smoking Police, however if you feel that sending it to the press will achieve anything but degrading whatever we all on here are trying to achieve well I will agree to differ from you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Rob T
Graeme - just saying that using a sledgehammer to crack a nut in the present climate is making us look pretty sad. This still isn't an H&S issue although some people seem to think that everything is. I'll butt out now if you pardon the expression, but I hope some of the responders become a little less legislative and a little more pragmatic - why do you think that there is an audience for conkers bonkers stuff - it's not always the ignorant that create that - sometimes it's the over zealous!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Nic Carstens
You can go as for as is reasonable they we just have to admit that children can and will find a way of defeating systems. I am a LA H&S advisor and cover a great deal of transport work. I have seen smoke detaectors before in busses, but soon they become a toy, to be set off deliberatly by out little angels. The school must take acountability, you will probably find that children do theses things because they know they will get away with it. Also, in your contract with the school do you specify any code or standards to me maintained by the school, it might be that they dont want to / or cant be bothere to take action because they feel it is your problem. In some troubles school (there are a few) schools use staff members on buses to monitor behavior, but this is quite rare and only following police intervention. A local school to me has alos started using community police officers, they not only can give good directions but can aid in telling of noughty children (so long as they call they Sir).
Remember, the school bus service is a luxury theses days not a legal requirement. Just like on school journays children can sign up top a code of conduct, this however is more for the school to arrrange.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.