Posted By Mark Elsdon Hi After changing my baby sons nappy on a mat on the floor of the disabled loo in the local Village Hall I made a recommendation that they fit a wall mounted baby changing table. I was told they looked into it before and couldn't fit one because of 'Health and Safety'. I've got no idea why H&S would prevent this. Perhaps it's safer to change a baby on a dirty loo floor than a dedicated mat! I suspect they are worried about being sued if the table came off the wall or the baby fell from the table. I've searched around and the only thing I can find is something in building regs saying these tables should not be fitted in a disabled loo. I note the word in the regs says 'should not' and not 'shall not' or 'must not' so this implies (to me) that if there is no choice then maybe this could be done - but I'm conscious there are various disability regs that also need to be considered. I hate people using H&S as an excuse when there appears to be no legitimate reason to do so - but perhaps I'm missing something? In my eyes, an appropriate CE marked table with clear safety warning signs, fitted with proper fittings by competent person and then inspected/maintained as necessary is all that's needed? The fact that it folds flat to around 100-150mm off the wall doesnt appear to me to imeded on disabled access but I am unsure. The tables couldnt go into separate mens/ladies as there is no space. What do people think - I'm sure ive seen changers in disabled loos before? Thanks, Mark

Posted By Bob Youel I have worked in many such areas and there is no reason that I can think of where H&S have advised that a changing station cannot be placed at the appropriate height etc There are even changing facilities nowadays that automaticially allow for the different weights of babies and heights of mothers! Somebody somewhere does not want to spend £

Posted By Robert K Lewis Mark One of the issues here is that disabled toilets have a primary purpose of serving the needs of disabled persons. This would not be a problem as long as the number of potential nappy change users is not likely to impede use. The bigger problem however rests with the toilet dimensions themselves. Many such disabled facilities are shoehorned in with minimum dimensions only being met. Even a small reduction in dimension can be critical for some disabled users. At this time, quite rightly, there are regulatory requirements for disabled persons not baby changing. Without knowing the building I cannot comment on the possibility of alternative provisions for baby changing. I would however investigate the current disabled dimensions to establish just where they come in relation to the current regulatory needs. H&S is only an issue is if there is insufficient space for the disbled person and their assistant to undertake the necessary toilet operations. Bob

Posted By Robert K Lewis Mark If you can get a scaled drawing of the toilet you simply need to fit in a 0.75 metre radius circle somewhere in the open space!! Items affixed to the wall must be taken into account unless above head height, around 2m. I think the betting is that you have just 0.75 radius at best. Bob

Posted By Crim I can probably add some confusion to this thread - my daughter is disabled and needs to be changed, she is now 7 years old and is usually changed on the dirty floor of disabled toilets, that are sometimes abused by able people who just cannot wait for their toilet to be free. There is some sympathy with parents of babies who sometimes find no changing table or mat but most places now have facilities for babies, not for changing disabled children. Personally I do not like to see parents of able babies using disabled toilets to change their babies, decent facilities for disabled are few and far between anyway. I just used a car park in Liverpool that has parking spaces for parents with children shared by disabled vehicles. Most of those spaces are occupied by non blue badge cars, (assume parents with children), while those of us with larger adapted cars have to find a space large enough to park our car in. We just can't park anywhere? I believe people who make rules for disabled should be disabled themselves otherwise they have no idea. Friday rant over!

Posted By Brett Day Bob, given that a certain well known chelsea tractor has a footprint the same as the mondeo I suspect that it is more due to thier total inability to park properly - a sad reflection on the state of thier driving ability. As an aside a friend worked in a shop with disabled bays outside an able bodied man came in and asked if it was ok to use them, my friend replied "No problem, go ahead, as long as you don't mind me giving you a reason to need to use it". He went and parked another 10 bays down!

Posted By Karen Todd I actually feel safer changing a wriggly baby on the floor. Or else on the back seat of the car. Most of the shelf type ones I've seen have a harness and big warning stickers to make sure baby is strapped in, but I've seen a few with no harness - don't like the thought of trying to keep wriggly baby still on shelf with one hand and rummage around in changing bag with other hand. KT

Posted By Mark Elsdon How ridiculous. What next - advice on unrestraiend child car seats? How can restraining a baby on a changer be considered child abuse - its obviously there to reduce the risk of baby rolling off. I know from personal experience (at home) that babies do fall off changers. A brief lapse in concentration whilst reaching for a nappy behind me - thankfully mine came to no harm. If the place has the opportunity to put in proper dedicated changing areas embedded in recessed benching with ample space for the menagerie of things we need to use - then risk is low. John Lewis Cambridge has an excellent set up for example. Where space is a premium, and fold up changers required, what harm can a short waist belt be?

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