Rank: Guest 
|
Posted By Tanka-Ray
Hello everyone,
A perennial question I know but probably something we all encounter at some point. Many of you will have friends or family with small business and they have probably approached you for help with their health and safety arrangements, just basic stuff like helping with their risk assessments. I was wondering if any of you had any reluctance or worries about this and if so, how do you protect your reputation?
Thanks a lot,
Tanka-Ray
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Phil Errup
Assessing risk is the cornerstone to our profession. If a safety bod isn't sure if they can help a friend to assess their own risks (unless they are in an industry which deserves a specialist) then I would say they are not really safety professionals at all.
I would liken it to a plumber saying he's not sure about looking at someones plumbing incase he doesn't understand it.
They're either a plumber, or their not.
If though you are asking regarding it all going belly up and the potential problems because you were helping, again, if you don't know it, the friend didn't know it otherwise they wouldn't ask for your help, so at least the effort was made and that would have be taken into consideration.
Having said that, if that isn't what you do for a living, and feel uncomfortable, then say so. Do not gamble with their business.
Hope that helps,
Phil
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By MickN
Insurance.
Professional Indemnity & Public Liability.
It comes at a cost of course and I sometimes wonder if it is really necessary. After all, what set of circumstances would result in a safety professional (and lets assume a competent one) being sued?
This person is a friend or relative and you do him/her a favour in good faith. If an accident happens the general rule of thumb is to sue everyone and that might include you!
Mick
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Phil Errup
Mick ,
Im confused by your post :-). it sounds like you are saying just help, what harm can it do, but you finish with what sounds like a warning? I have no experience of anyone ever pointing the finger in my direction. Is it likely to happen, or is it even a posibility if you help someone in these circumstances? (If you are negligent or incompetent then obviously, but if not...)
Genuine question, not trying to spark a debate here .
Phil
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By MickN
Phil,
The question from Tanka-ray was about protecting yourself as a provider of professional safety services. I'm pointing out that there are insurance policies for this.
Having said all that I would agree that being sued, as a safety professional, is highly unlikely. So, of course you would help your friend/relative, however, shouldn't I also provide a warning of the consequences of such actions?
Mick
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By MickN
Make that "...possible consequences..."
Mick
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By willhiem
I was recently wondering about helping out one or two chairties as best i can which in other words would be helping out with their safety etc, as i'm a lowsy cook and while i'd class myself as 'handy enough' at doing general work and a bit of DIY, i'm sure they'd find more people to do this so if i could help with the safety side of things all the better, but i guess what iw as wondering was a similar one to tankya, should i b e getting PI and other stuff in order first? i know chaity is different from family - the charity would be grateful!! but its still doing work you wont be getting paid for. perhaps a disclaimer of sorts may help to alay a bit of the liability?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Phil Errup
"shouldn't I also provide a warning of the consequences of such actions?"
Sorry Mick, Im not sure that they are possible consequences, that is why I am asking, I'm not being argumentative. I mean, I assess risks for my employer every day. If they are sued, could they in turn sue me. Or could I be sued if there was an incident?
I do not have PI insurance so am I at risk?
And thats why I am asking, sued for what. If you do this for a living, what have you got to fear. Assessing risk is what we do every day.
Thats why I say if it is not your day job, don't do it.
None of the above are rhetorical questions by the way :-).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By MickN
Willheim, I now feel like I stole Christmas! If you wish to help the charity then please do so.
I'm a self employed H&S contractor and as part of my current contract I am required to have insurance. It's there so that those who pay me can detach themselves from my mistakes, at least that's how I believe they think it works. In reality I never let it bother me, I don't know of any case where a safety person has been sued for "making a bad call".
I advise people every day, my counsel is given in good faith and I believe I'm good at what I do so I don't worry about it. On the flip side I believe every safety professional needs to have that little voice in the back our heads keeping us on an even keel.
Mick
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Paul Phillips
It guess depends on the extent off the help you give, if you are offering 'Professional opinion' or if you are offering 'professional advice' There are ways to get people to think for themselves by asking have they considered items, without telling them the answers, offer guidance but not solutions. I suppose the potential is breach of sec 36 of the Act, 'Offences due to the fault of others'
I will help anyone to find their own solutions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By MickN
Phil, I refer you to my answer to Willheim above. You have an employer and he will (or should) have all the required insurances. I'm self-employed I have to organise them for myself.
I have already pointed out that I think that this circumstance is highly unlikely. That said, the insurance policies exist because professionals make mistakes sometimes. I've met many safety professionals and they are all different in term of backround, education and experience, yet they do the same job. If this forum teaches us anything it's that there is a huge diversity in the solutions to each problem. Finally I would put it to you that as humans we are, by nature, prone to error. That's where insurance comes in.
Mick
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Phil Errup
Agree Mick 100%, still wondering if my employers insurance will cover me if I am on the receiving end if my employer is sued, who in turn tries to sue me, or is that not possible.... rather than continue going around in circles, I will pose the question to my insurers. :-)
Happy Friday,
Phil
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Simon Rosser
Phil
I am the H&S Officer for a local charity event, for which the charity concerned pay my PI for this event only. I am employed in a role with PI insurance but only for the work I undertake for my employer. It was a condition of my involvement with the charity from my employer that additional PI was taken out.
Don't assume that the PI your employer holds covers you for voluntary work you may undertake. Speak to them - if it needs upgrading they may do it on your behalf as support for the charity / friend / mate of a mate / family member etc.
However, if you want to do it, do it... better your help as a professional than they struggle and miss something which comes back to bite them.
regards
Simon
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By John A Wright
I'm an H&S contractor, with PI ins., and I would treat my friends the same way as I do customers.
Although I advise my customers, I also personally conduct risk assessments with employees, so my signature appears on every risk assessment document (over 100 I would say) as well as the dept. manager.
At the back of my mind there is always a concern that an employee will have an accident, and an investigator may come to the conclusion that the risk assessment was insufficient. OK, manager's responsibility, but my signature is there too....
So far, any recent accidents at customers have been due to employees not following procedure, you can't alwats predict that, so I'm not expecting to be sued, but one day I may miss something.
Friends can be your worst enemy if you do something wrong.
John
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Son of SkyWalker
My view is that as long as you make them think for themselves e.g. "do you think it is safe to store goods above the office?" Through this they start to see what they should be looking at.
I also do not document the risk assessments or sign them I also point out that I am not their "competent health and safety adviser" and that they should look at getting someone to do this.
This whole process means that I do not worry, they are made aware of potential issues and their level of safety increases.
So many small to medium companies are still in the dark in terms of health and safety. Offering this level of favour can only do good in my mind.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Guest
|
Posted By Garry Mcglaid
Speaking personally,
I would assist any well being organisation , friend, local charity, or any other needy soul that requires my assistance as a Health and Safety Professional.
I have done so in the past, and i will do so in the future.
I know my limitations in the field, i also know where my strengths are.
I hear constantly about Health & Safety professional complain about insurance guiding the profession, then as soon as we are asked to give some advice, the muscles tense and insurance indemnitys strike up.
Call me old fashioned, call me thick, regardless,
I have, and will continue to give (ADVICE), especially if it is a subject i know i am in a position to guide.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.