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Posted By Hazel Harvey
The posting relating to CSCS cards has been removed by the IOSH moderators. I have been asked to post the definative position regarding IOSH membership and the card again for forum users clarification. This is:
'OSH Membership and the CSCS card
IOSH membership can be used as part of the application process for CSCS cards, using the professional membership mapped route (PMMR).
The following cards are available for IOSH members once you have successfully completed one of the multi-choice touch screen tests.
Professional Qualified Person’s card (Yellow) for members who are not permanently resident on a construction site. These cards allow 30 days of visits in any 6 month period. This is not to be confused with the more simple visitors card which allows people to make deliveries to site and similar. The card will show that it relates to strategic health and safety management. .
• All Graduate Members (Grad IOSH), Chartered Members (CMIOSH) and Chartered Fellows (CFIOSH) may obtain this card once they have completed the PQP test, however, you will be required to verify your experience in the construction industry by submitting a CV with your application. Additionally Technician Members (Tech IOSH) who hold the NEBOSH Construction Certificate are also eligible.
For members who are operating on sites on a full-time basis the following options are available:
• Construction Health and Safety Manager’s card (Platinum) for Chartered Members and Fellows (CMIOSH/CFIOSH) who have passed either the H&S Managers or PQP test.
• Construction Health and Safety Officer’s card (Gold) for Graduate Members (Grad IOSH) who have passed either the H&S Supervisors or PQP test
• Trainees card (Red) for supervisors and managers who hold level 3 qualifications for Technician Members (Tech IOSH) who hold a NEBOSH Construction Certificate who have passed either the all CSCS card holders:
It should be noted that the PQP test takes precedence over the other tests so it is strongly recommended that IOSH members should take this test which would allow them to obtain a higher level card if their circumstances change. (An example of this would be a Graduate Member becoming a Chartered Member and upgrading their Gold card to Platinum). Tests are valid for 2 years for application of a card and cards are valid for 5 years.
The Black Senior Health and Safety Manager’s card will be available to holders of the NVQ level 5 in OSH Practice only.
In all cases IOSH will verify the membership categories of applicants to the CSCS cards you will not be required to ask another member to verify this. For resident’s cards the signature of an employer or in the case of a consultant or self-employed member, a client, will also be required on the application form.
Members wishing to apply for a CSCS card can apply via www.cscs.uk.com.'
Hazel Harvey
Professional Affairs Director.
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Posted By Tony abc jprhdnMurphy
Hazel
with respect the information contained is not strictly true. I am a platinum card holder, Tech Iosh, and, worse still did not need to provide proof of my NEBOSH, although they may have access to that information without my permission.
I think the reason so many people have made reference to the CSCS card system is that they probably feel the same way as I do, that is to say that skills cards should be automatically issued to people based on proof of competence, and not subject to the push screen test which is so amateur and mind numbingly easy to pass.
If any safety professional, particularly CMIOSH level or above, needs to take this push screen test as proof of competence then I am Ho Chi Mhin
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Posted By Hazel Harvey
Tony,
This is the agreement that IOSH made with CSCS with regards to recognition of membership categories within the scheme. There are other methods of obtaining a CSCS card as well.
Hazel Harvey
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Posted By GeoffB4
Professional Qualified Person’s card (Yellow) for members who are not permanently resident on a construction site. These cards allow 30 days of visits in any 6 month period. This is not to be confused with the more simple visitors card which allows people to make deliveries to site and similar. The card will show that it relates to strategic health and safety management.
May I ask when this change occurred? I have a visitors card issued in February 2007 and the criteria you put up was not recognised then.
I would comment that despite quite a large number of visits to sites in that time, I have never been asked for and neither have I shown the card.
And I've mentioned before a quote from a large household name housebuilders site agent.
"If we insisted on CSCS cards we'd never get a house built."
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Posted By A Campbell
Geoff,
I and others will proberly have had similar experiences.
The CSCS scheme is an industry led system and is up to each individual company (PC) to decide how they run things on their own individual sites.
There is a history of inconsistencies and after reading the local paper on my way home… adverts for pass your CSCS test here! I’m unsure that the whole ethos is being used effectively. I’m sure that some of the major projects T5 for example carried it out in a more thorough way than projects in the city that do not.
I think that at the end of the day it appears that the PC dictates and what he/she says go’s!
Tony
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Posted By GeoffB4
Tony, interesting observation. I went on the T5 site twice. I didn't have to show the CSCS card for some reason, but I did have to attend a lengthy induction each time because of the gap between visits.
I wss quite impressed with their system at T5 to a point, but less impressed when a contractor tried to hide the less satisfactory results of the audit.
So with the best will in the world it comes down to people and motivation.
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Posted By Hazel Harvey
Geoff,
This agreement was made in October 07.
Hazel Harvey
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Posted By teaboy
the card system appears to be farcical, i have held a trade card since their inception and these days i also hold a black card as well, i have worked on T5, T4, T3, Sizewell, the Emirates stadium, 2 major gas installations and numerous smaller projects. Neither of my cards have EVER been out of my wallet, no one has even asked if i hold them. i'm debating if its worth the money to renew them again as it appears to be pointless
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Posted By A Campbell
Teaboy.. (no sugar pls!)
The closest I got was to write the number onto the induction form!
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Posted By RP
The test was put togeather by competent people, was'nt it...? I find that this is never answered.
PS: Whats the Polish for "can I see yer CSCS card please mate"?
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Posted By GeoffB4
Thanks Hazel.
A rhetorical question: You'd think wouldn't you, that CSCS would advertise any changes to card holders?
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Posted By Kelly Hughes
PS: Whats the Polish for "can I see yer CSCS card please mate"?
"moze widze CSCS card prosze yer mate"
Google !!!!!!!
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Posted By philip john
Hazel
When I applyed for the CSCS card as TechIOSH & Nebosh Construction certificate they informed me that the Nebosh Construction certificate was not a recognised qualification but TechIOSH was.
So someone does not have all the facts on this issue be it yourself Hazel or the 2 or 3 staff at CSCS headquarters.
Can CSCS or anyone else confirm it straight is Nebosh construction cert recognised or not with
CSCS
If its not then the company is not doing it's self any favour with Health & safety professional through this forum
I'm on my 4 nebosh course (on diploma final unit (unit C) and all I got was a red trainee card as the principle contractors health & safety advisor.
The problem with CSCS cards is that they are not law to have them but they seem to think a 10 min touch screen is more competent that 4 years of health & safety learning.
Sort it out guys or your cards will be history as organisations will abandon them for other systems
You have been advised
Phil
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Posted By Philip Roche
full time safety adviser grad iosh , 5 years under the belt diploma qualified did the PQP touch screen test as i read in the above had all my info verified as required, letter today i am only entitled to a TRAINEE card . anything to get the NVQ money really. Im really frustrated as doing an nvq the same time as my IPD is too much but im told i have to have a CSCS card and i am not a TRAINEE
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Posted By murray-t
I am a Tech IOSH who holds the Construction certificate and has done CITB Site manager’s course. I work for a construction company on their many sites. We require all our site employee’s and Sub contractors to have and indeed show us their CSCS cards before we allow them to work for us. I contacted CSCS to ask which card would be best for me to apply for and was informed that the yellow Construction Site Visitor’s card would be the only card I would be eligible to receive. So four weeks ago that’s what I applied for. Now even though I’m on site everyday and have to ensure that all our employee’s have the correct card, I am classed as a visitor to my own site.
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Posted By James M
Depending on when and how you obtained your CSCS card, depends on where the goal posts were at that time.
I remember back many years ago, if you had a construction certificate you didn't have to do the touch screen test. Try pulling that one now!!
Anyone who missed the deadlines that have now expired will predominantly have to do a NVQ.
It's an ever changing world that we live in.
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Posted By graeme12345
It's a money making scheme that does nothing to help prevent accidents on site.
Why did IOSH not fight in it's members corner for automatic free inclusion (for whatever membership category) into this unnecessary scheme?
While others were berating this scheme at start up what benefits did IOSH see in it that others did not?
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Posted By Hazel Harvey
All,
Just let me know if you are experiencing any problems obtaining your CSCS and I'll take them through on your behalf. The position is as above but it doesn't always filter down to the administration staff in the offices.
I had an issue last week which I took up with the CSCS Manager and it was resolved.
The agreement with CSCS is as above.
If things were to be told I would expect to be informed but I haven't been so assume things are as they are.
Hazel Harvey
Professional Affairs Director.
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Posted By Anthony Edwards
Totally agree graeme12345.
If you grabbed ten people off the street and asked them to sit the test I'm convinced 90% would pass.
Nutty
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Posted By Tony abc jprhdnMurphy
But that still doesnt get you a card.
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Posted By James M
IOSH shouldn't be assisting members get cards unless they are competent.
If I was to transfer to the food or nuclear sector I would expect to do my homework and pass any relevant tests that are appropriate for that industry.
I took a NHS health and safety professional around a building site and she was amazed at the things she didn't know about the construction sector.
But, to change the angle slightly, would she have passed a CSCS test? probably!!
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Posted By graeme12345
"so when woudn't a member be competent to obtain a card without taking the test?"
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Posted By Tony abc jprhdnMurphy
Can you reword that question please?
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Posted By Neil R
ah the good old cscs card system! when it began i thought it was a good idea for site operatives, It was a way of ensuring the people working on site had some health and safety knowledge, but as soon as all these gold and platinum cards etc started appearing it all went wrong.
I currently have the Gold card (i dont see why i need one, i argued with my managers about how it would be of no benefit but in the end gave up).
I am a health and Safety advisor for a large construcion company i have a degree in healh and safety and a major in construction site management and safety why did i need to sit the test answering questions like what would i do if i spotted a tripping hazard? with answer choices like "leave it for someone else to sort" i walked out of the test centre shaking my head.
Also if its based on safety how come i have a gold card and some other people like engineers etc have a platinum or black etc am i not more competent than them in safety matters?
the allegience with the NVQ system is also sickening, people being told that there NEBOSH dip isnt good enough for a cetain card and they need a NVQ 4.
in short its a farce rant over!
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