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Type 3 Asbestos surveys prior to demolition – who pays the seller or the buyer?
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Posted By Iain Watt
We have a premises that has rec’d a type 2 asbestos survey. It is to be sold on as part of a development package with the intention of its demolition by the new owner. We will forward what information we have to the new owner.
Our project advisors have suggested that a type 3 survey be carried out by ourselves prior to sale to which our managers are asking me why?
My slant has been that when sold the role of dutyholder (CAW Regs 4) transfers to the new owner/management and their CDM Co-ordinator will advise on asbestos management prior to demolition proceeding. Costs can be accounted for in the sale agreements.
My only question stems from CAW Reg 4(9)(c)(i) and: -
(9) The measures to be specified in the plan for managing the risk shall include adequate measures for-
(c) ensuring that information about the location and condition of any asbestos or any such substance is-
(i) provided to every person liable to disturb it
In knowing it is likely to be disturbed (demolition) is the duty ours to inform the purchaser on ‘any asbestos’ even if the location and condition has not been identified as a relevant risk. Or is my "over to you" the approach.
Thoughts please.
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Rank: Guest
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Posted By steve e ashton
Iain
I'm reasonably sure the sale could (legally) go either way
BUT - if the seller commissions the survey, and gets a couple of removal quotes - he will have a clear idea of how much its going to cost, and will be able to pass the info to prospective purchasers. The price of the property will be reasonable (although with all else in the world today, it may not be as reasonable as it would have been two weeks ago...)
If the 'over to you guys' approach is adopted, any responsible buyer will want to do a due diligence - and will reduce his offer price accordingly. And will signicantly over-estimate the costs of ACM removal thus further reducing his offer. He will be buying risk from you, and will want to cost this into his offer by reducing the amount he is willing to pay.
Basically, its a question of risk - and in my opinion, to get the lowest cost for the risk (highest price for the property)- the seller would be best advised to commission the type 3 survey himself (and possibly even remove as well....).
Whilst 'caveat emptor' may be the commonly accepted saying, if you sell to the highest bidder - and the buyer has NOT done a due diligence, and has NOT accounted for the future survey / removal costs - then some liability could well come back to yourselves for failing adequately to inform the buyer.
Must stress this is my opinion - I couldn't quote chapter and verse on the contract law and unfair contract terms etc.... Hope it helps.
Steve
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Posted By Dave Wilson
A Type two survey is for 'asbestos management purposes' and a type 3 survey is then required on top of this when undertaking 'Refurbishment / demolition'.
I would suggest that the survey you have already completed is what is required when the building is in your hands. If the purchaser then want to refurb / demolish then the commissioning of a type 3 survey as required by CAR and CDM would be the new owners responsibility and not yours.
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Ian,
Your Project Advisers are providing very poor advice. You have no duty to undertake a survey.
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Posted By Bob Youel
the buyer has the power, especially in today's climate - I would not procure a building etc unless the seller provided all that was reasonably practicable to provide and I would decide what was RP
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
I am with DW on this. It is actually not your concern what the buyer intends to do. You only need to manage your own asbestos.
Strangely there is actually no formal requirement to pass the reports on at sale. If the contract exchange occurs without passing over such information there is is not an offence.
I have a situation currently where the developer has sold on the site having started demolitions. There are no Type 3 surveys traceable/handed over and the discussion now is concerning costs. The new owner is however stuck with his CAR duties with regard to the empty properties. Would be grateful for DW biew on this one!
Bob
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Posted By Brian Hagyard
Bob
Regulation's 4(9)(c) and (i) of the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2006 require that any information about the location and condition of any asbestos is provided to every person liable to disturb it (providing its a non-domestic premises of course). Surly that means that if you have undertaken a presumptive or a type 2 survey you must pass on the findings to a purchaser of a building?
I do agree that if you are selling a building which the new owner is to demolish there is no duty for the seller to undertake the type three survey under Health and Safety Legislation, but as others have said the buyer may make this a condition of the sale.
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Rank: Guest
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Brian
This I think applies to those persons undertaking work activities liable to disturb - Purchasing itself does not disturb.
Having said that I do think that the practice is close to the edge.
Bob
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Rank: Guest
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Posted By CFT
Iain
Type two fine for management purposes, type three as stated above; in addition, some underwriters require type three.
Other than that, unless it seriously jeopardises a potential sale for the obvious development purposes, it is down to the developer. You should (well I always do) document the limitations of the existing survey and let them know it is not a type three which is of course what would be required for said demolition/development.
I would be satisfied that you have discharged your duties (on asbestos) with regards the sale.
CFT
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Type 3 Asbestos surveys prior to demolition – who pays the seller or the buyer?
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