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Posted By lomaxa
All
I have an employee who suffers with Diabetes. His Podiatrist has told him not to wear safety boots for two reasons. The toe cap restricts the free movement of his feet potentially causing damage in itself over long periods and also the ventilation is not adequate in his current boots.
Whilst we should be able to source some specialist boots to combat the ventilation issue I can't see us being able to provide any boots that do not restrict free movement of the toes.
I have asked HSE for guidance and am waiting for a response but thought i'd draw on all your experience whilst I wait.
He has suggested signing a waiver to discharge any responsibility on my company on the advice of his podiatrist. I have asked the HSE if this will stand up to scrutiny but am aware of my responsibilities to keep him safe.
The problem is he has no qualifications to take any other role in the company and boots are required in all areas as part of our manual handling risk assessment.
Any advice would be welcomed,
Thanks
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Posted By Dave Dowan
Hi I had a similar problem a few years ago.
Yes you can try and source more suitable footwear but if he will not or cannot wear them he cannot carry out a task which has been risk assessed as requiring safety footwear. A waiver signed by the employee has no standing,
Dave
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Posted By Dejay
Lomaxa
I am a diabetic and wear safety shoes everyday in the course of my job. The shoes do not restrict my movement in any way, and in fact they protect my toes from any injury to my feet which as a diabetic are vulnerable to suffering from injury.
Also I would clarify with your insurers about using disclaimers, many will not stand up in court as the response will be even though you have offered PPE you still allowed the employee to be at risk.
I would not be allowed anywhere near our operational area without safety footwear and company policy dictates that anybody without PPE will be sent home.
Answer your question?
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Posted By lomaxa
To clarify
What the podiatrist has said is that the toes need a free range of movement and that the nature of the rigid toe cap can mean that the toes bash against them inside thus over long periods causing damage and sores. This has been confirmed in writing.
I can't comment on my personal opinion hence why I'm asking for advice from you guys. But at the same time obviously I must react to what i am being told.
I think I'll pass this to my HR team to look into.
Thanks
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Posted By Paul D
There is some case law on this where a guy lost his job because his company could not relocate him to another job due to him not being able to wear safety footwear as part of his normal job.
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Posted By Roderick Glen
I've just run this thread past my wife, who is (a) a doctor of 27 years experience and (b) has been diabetic for 36 years.
I quote "I am sure that if suitably sized safety footwear can be sourced, there is no medical reason why this individual cannot wear it". The rider here is obviously *suitably sized" which may require assessment by your employee's medical adviser.
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Posted By Roderick Glen
I've just run this thread past my wife, who is (a) a doctor of 27 years experience and (b) has been diabetic for 36 years.
I quote "I am sure that if suitably sized safety footwear can be sourced, there is no medical reason why this individual cannot wear it". The rider here is *suitably sized" which may require assessment by your employee's medical adviser.
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Posted By Garry Mcglaid
I am diabetic, have worked in construction all my days, and i see my safety boot as an essential line of defence to my feet.
From a personal slant, i have never experienced any problems from circulation with safety footwear, not that i,m saying this lad does,nt have differing issues with his circumstances
Maybe a little bit of education to the bloke on the problems from not having protection, and the dangers to damage to his feet might work mate.
Regards
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Posted By Roly Buss
I am a diabetic and have worn protective shoes, which are tighter than boots, for many years, with no problems except my socks always wear out at the big toe - but perhaps that is nothing to do with prot footwear.
The case which has been mentioned where an employee was dismissed is fully described at
http://www.oldsquare.co.uk/pdf_cases/1200296.pdf
Merry Christmas to all our readers
Roly
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Posted By Tabs
Speak to the shoe manufacturers - I imagine that if this is a problem, they have already had to deal with it before. Talk to the bigger companies.
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Posted By Neil R
What utter rubbish, the mind boggles sometimes at the garbage some of the medical profession pass off.
A proper sized safety shoe is no different from a normal shoe! If you look at the construction of a safety boot/ shoe the only difference is a layer of steel is moulded to the inner lining of the front. It makes no difference to the fit.
I personally find my safety boots more comfortable than any of my trainers/ shoes.
I suggest you get a second opinion from someone else you'll probably find that the advice will be different. As i have mentioned on other threads you cannot use a waiver in health and safety law it won't stand up in court.
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Posted By Mike Foulds
Hi
I am based in the distribution sector, we have key rules, Hi Viz and Safety shoes.
If you can not or will not wear them, sorry you can't come in.
I think your person is pushing their luck plenty of shoes out there, if the feet need to breath take the shoes off at break times!
Firm but fair
Mike
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Posted By philip john
I believe that the only way you can get out of wearing PPE is through your religion,
eg. wearing a turban instead of a hard hat..
... but you willingly take that risk if something lands on your head.
meaning that if you believe that you are being discriminated because you wear such religious paraphernalia you understand that if the employer does everything in his power to protect you then you can work in that area but you realise that if something drops on your head then you may find it harder to obtain full compensation.
Only you head, if something land on your shoulder/back then the turban wouldn't have protected you anyway, so a claim should be easy to make.
I suppose a bit of volenti non fit injuria
Sorry for my terrible interpretation of this.
Phil
PS someone will reword this for easier understanding!!!
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Posted By louis2002
Hi
I work for a very large company and as such we do have quite a few people who are diabetic and i have to make special arrangements for them in terms of PPE (Footwear) if you would like to contact me i can provide you with what i use within my company, Wearing of PPe is a mandatory requirement off our gangways and as such we have gon to great lengths and great research to make sure our personnel are catered for.
You may want to remind them of the HSWA section comment.
Employees have a duty to:
take reasonable care of their own health and safety …
… and anyone else who may be affected by their acts or omissions.
Co-operate with their employer to enable legal obligations to be met (PPE wearing ) etc.
Regards
Chris harris
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Posted By Andy Brazier
The use of blanket rules for PPE has been debated on this forum in the past (i.e everyone must wear safety boots, gloves etc.). I personally think they help simplify the rules and hence can improve compliance, but only if they are reasonable and everyone accepts their limitations.
I think in the vast majority of cases a blanket rule is identified on a generic risk assessment. I can't see any problem with doing specific risk assessment for individuals where the rule creates a risk to them that may not apply to others. In the case of safety boots, I can not see how failure to wear them can cause an accident. I believe they provide a slight risk reduction to general population because they can reduce the consequence of some very specific events. This specific assessment may identify certain activities that they can not get involved in, but I would be amazed if it meant the person could not work on the job completely.
We have a duty to accommodate disabled people in the workplace. As health and safety practitioners we should not be coming up with reasons why people cannot work, but instead looking at what we can do to make sure they can work safely.
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Posted By Phil Rose
I am diabetic and am a bit surprised at the podiatrist's approach. I can't understand how the podiatrist can conclude that no safety footwear would be suitable. I suspect there may be something else going on here!
Do bear in mind DDA and make reasonable adjustments.
Waiver!! The provision of PPE is a statutory duty - you can't waive that!
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Posted By Neil R
Andy, If it has been defined that safety footwear is required. Then you cannot start risk assessing certain people out of that rule, you will set a dangerous precedent. Steel toe cap shoes provide protection to area of the body that is at risk during most operations within industry. That is backed up by many statistics.
If the person in question suffers an injury the the company has no defence from legal action as the risk assessment that was used to relieve that person of an item of PPE has not worked. When you consider that the reason for not wearing safety footwear is fairly poor i don't believe an exemption could be safely applied in this case
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Posted By Andy Brazier
Neil - you may well be right that in this situation safety boots are essential, but I don't believe we have nearly enough information to make that judgement. In fact if it were the case I would seriously worry about the other controls in place that allow such risks to exist.
Your view seems to be that safety boots are essential. If there was a law that said that I would agree. However, there is not. It is based on risk assessment which involves judgement. The point is that the measures in put in place reduces risk rather than eliminate it. Safety boots do not prevent all foot injuries, they just reduce some. I think if we followed your reasoning that toe caps are providing valuable protection I would then ask why don't we use steel shin pads or kevlar trousers? These could protect you against injury.
If we look at other disabilities. A blind person must be at more risk of bumping into hazards, trips etc. than others. Someone in a wheel chair will find it more difficult to escape from a fire. Do we stop these people working altogether because their risks are greater than people without disability? Some may argue we should, but I certainly do not.
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Posted By Janet Quinn
I am interested in how long they have worn safety boots for before they decided, or were told, that they were a potential problem.
I would also ask the podiatrist to put their views in writing, just in case there has been a misunderstanding of the advice given them. Also, I would check what footwear they usually wear.
A lot of valuable comments here, and I particularly emphasize the importance of prevention of injury to a person with diabetes.
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Posted By Crim
PPE is a last resort! Does anyone remember that?
Is there a trade union or employee safety rep? If so get him/her involved.
You should go back to your risk assessments for the work and see if you can eliminate the risk, then if all else fails the employee is unable to remain in that employment so you should release him.
Speak to the footwear suppliers as has been suggested earlier, they will probably have the answer?
HR need to get involved.
I think if that was put to the individual you may see the position easing a little?
Good luck.
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Posted By smoggy
Did you get a response from the HSE?
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Posted By jervis
Depends on what your bloke has told the medical people as there seems to be a lot of people with similar experience with out problems. Have you had this in writing from the medic or is it what your worker is saying. Maybe he has a problem wearing or dislikes wearing them !
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