Posted By Mark1983 Is it a legal requirement for plant operators to have a ticket, or can they just be shown in house by a competant person? Same goes for us of abrasive wheels, manual handling etc... Do they all require 'Formal' external body training to demonstrate competancy?

Posted By Paul D If you have a 'competent' person get them to do the training. You do not have to go to external training providers.

Posted By Paul D From experience my pet Staffordshire Bull Terrier could sit the required H&S 'test' and get a 'competence card'.

Posted By GeoffB4 To answer the question! David is correct in terms of construction plant.

Posted By Mark1983 Thankyou for your comprehesive answer David, ive just checked with the HSE infoline and you are quite right. Plant operators along with those operating abrasive wheels & carrying out manual handling may all receive 'training' from a competent person, not necessarily an external training body. That then puts the onus on the employer to ensure that the training they are providing their employees is adequate. Some things do however require external training, such as first aid... :)

Posted By Paul D Why can you not verify an internal trainer

Posted By Neil R Look at the bigger picture here, you use an internal guy to provide training on a machine. It is the companies responsibility to make sure the internal guy is fully competent and the training is suitable. There is an accident, the training comes under heavy scrutiny. How does the training hold up to the level of competence required? how do you verify the person who delivered the training was competent? is s/he a qualified trainer? and so on and so on... Get you training externally from an accredited source you dont have the above problems. If you sub-contract, will the principal contractor accept your training as a measure of competence? probably not, the company i work for certainly wouldn't... and so on. The guy who delivered your internal training leaves... you have an accident... can you still contact him... and so on. My personal opinion is for machine training, abrasive wheels etc use an accredited training company and leave no doubts

Posted By Paul D Neil, If the internal guy is fully 'competent' then he is 'competent'. You would use the exact same process in making sure the trainer could do the training that you would for an 'external' provider. If an accident was to occur the enforcing authorities would still put the 'external' training under scrutiny. An 'internal competent person' is just as qualified as an 'external competent person' they are both 'competent' to carry out training.

Posted By Neil R Ok so you've satisfied yourself that they are a competent machine operator. Are they however competent to provide training on the operation. As a certified trainer i can assure you there is a big difference in having knowledge and delivering knowledge. The HSE/ EHO see it the same way we had a discussion with the HSE two years ago hence why i'm now a certified trainer. It was an eye opener.

Posted By GeoffB4 That wasn't the point of the question Neil. That's been answered by the fact 'external external training is not a legal requirement'. All the rest is discussing around that concept and does not affect the answer.

Posted By Neil R As per the comment above from Mark, that was my point. Maybe we have all jumped the gun a bit on this. If the original poster was suggesting that they use an internal training department with fully trained trainers providing the course then as far as im aware that would cover legal duties under HSWA 1974. However if it was meant that a competent operative (not an instructor) was to provide training, which is what i assumed, then that would not be acceptable. Perhaps the original poster could clear this up?