Posted By nick james I've currently got an official complaint with my employers regarding being in a building whilst a type 3 Asbestos Survey was carried out (full details a href="http://www.iosh.co.uk/index.cfm?go=discussion.view&forum=1&thread=38356">b>here/b>/a>) As part of this I've asked to look at the risk assessment that should've been compiled beforehand. It took a while for the management to get hold of it from the builders, but I did finally get to see it yesterday. Now, being unschooled in anything like this, I was surprised at how sparse the document was - we are talking just under 3 sides of an A4, no date on it and no signature. It comprised of 3 sections: SECTION 1: Personnel Details of assessor (who also seems to have been the surveyor), a bit on Plant Equipment and a C.O.S.H.H bit (with not entries) SECTION 2: Description of Work (type 3, date, location) and Scope of Work SECTION 3: Definition of Type 3 (direct from MDHS100) and Methodology Now there was no noted consideration of 'risk' that I could see, therefore am I being naive in thinking this falls short of what was required? Or is this in fact all that was needed?

Posted By Robert K Lewis One comment only Duty to manage and duty to assess does not rest with surveyor. See regulation 4 CAR 2006. Bob

Posted By nick james It's no wind up Frank, I'm afraid. As you can see from my other post, this has been going on since August when the survey took place, and I've only just got to see the risk assessment. To be candid, I've got a feeling that this so-called "Risk Assessment" has been put together after the fact due to my insistence at seeing it. By the way, who would be the 'enforcing authority' because I feel quite strongly that this company should be reported, if what is coming to light is proving them to be breaching their duty and endangering people?

Posted By artisdeeian Hi Nick. Yes sorry mate I did and built on this with the survey. The R.A. was carried out in each factory and included all areas including offices etc. Ian

Posted By Ron Hunter Nick what you describe is not so much a risk assessment but more the standard "Methodolgy" blurb produced by the Asbestos Survey people. Things seem to be coming round to you in a full circle though, because if the author (the surveyor) follows his statement and surveys and samples in accordance with MDHS 100, then guess what - you shouldn't have been there (or at least not in the same immediate area) when the survey was conducted. (para 45 of MDHS 100 refers)

Posted By nick james Hi Ron, Thanks for the reply - I am of the same opinion as you. When you read their survey report they keep saying it was carried on in accordance with MDHS100, and I'm thinking hold on a minute!!!?? So the question is, can they pass off this 3 page document as a risk assessment - surely not?

Posted By Dave Myatt Nick. The information provided is certainly insufficient. Unfortunately it isn't yet a legal requirement that a company carrying out an asbestos survey holds UKAS accreditation for doing so (only for the actual analysis of a sample). If the surveying company maintains accreditation as an inspection body you can be certain that all risks would be fully assessed as is required when working to that standard. A type 3 survey would only take place in an occupied building if there were no other options available as a fully intrusive survey would otherwise not be possible. You would normally expect this to be covered in the risk assessment where, for example, it may be decided to carry out a preliminary survey whilst the building is occupied and return later, out of hours, to take samples and carry out more intrusive works in pre-determined locations. The moral of the story would be to use a UKAS accredited inspection body and check that a company doesn't just hold accreditation for bulk analysis or air monitoring.

Posted By nick james Thanks to everyone who has posted overnight - I'll address each response one by one: Ron: From what I saw the surveyor was left to his own devices, which is what you explained happens all too often. I'd be surprised if he was given a walk-through and regarding being given a "heads-up" about personnel in the building - I doubt it happened. Management didn't even tell the few remaining occupants of the building that an asbestos report was taking place - I only found out when I bumped into the fella at the end of his first day and asked what he was up to. Dave: It seems strange that a company that deals with such a nasty substance doesn't have to be accredited - be it only at the survey stage. The bloke who carried out our survey did so without any protective clothing as far as I witnessed - he wore jeans and t-shirt. The one time I did see him wearing a face mask, it was of the type that I wouldn't even entertain for DIY. I think we can assume he isn't accredited. Al: On the Risk Assessment, the surveyor is named and gives his qualification as BOHS P402 (whatever that means) and lists his number of years of experience as 5.

Posted By Ron Hunter The information provided by Nick on this post doesn't suggest that the Surveyor has done anything wrong and there is no basis whatsoever on which to criticise his individual competency. The initial Risk Assessment process, which should involve the client/employer and the surveying company (but not necessarily the Surveyor tasked to attend to conduct the Survey) seems to be the problem. I'll chance paraphrasing the relevant part of MDHS100 to assist you Nick: Before carrying out a site survey, it is important that an assessment of the risks to the health and safety of surveyors, sampling personnel and other occupants is carried out. Risk assessments should be documented and must be available to the site surveyors. Often surveyors will be seeing the site for the first time so will have little chance to evaluate the site-specific hazards that are involved and will rely on the risk assessment made based on information gathered during the preliminary site meeting and walk-through. The client should be asked to provide information relating to any hazards specific to the site. On that basis Nick there is at least an equal onus on the employer and the surveying company to conduct this initial assessment, but an absolute requirement is placed on your employer to ensure this assessment is undertaken. The Survey Company has to make a living. If they took the approach of no site meeting, no risk assessment, then no Survey, someone else would take the work anyway.

Posted By nick james Ron: Ignore my last post - I have had another look at the risk assessment and think my novice eyes are leading me to think that the asbestos firm is the author. I believe I need to enquire with my employers as to who actually produced it.

Posted By nick james Thanks Ron - I appreciate all your input. I'm going to take the bull by the horns and do some serious question asking. Thanks once again!