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Posted By GeoffB4
You are being too literal Gary.
It was a good valid point put forward by Ray and which has elicited a number of excellent answers. It doesn't matter about the context intended by the original author, it was purely a discussion point put forward for us to ruminate on.
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Posted By GaryC40
Geoff,
There is part of me that agrees 100% and yes this thread has been great for discussion, with many valid opinions discussed and expressed.
However, if i were Ian Prosser i would be ever so slightly cheesed off if something i did not actually say was used as a launchpad for someone else's opinion.
The art of editing situations and text can be extremely damaging as we all see in the press every week.
Why do you think HSE has created myth of the month? Answer - an attempt to dispel the misquotes and misinterpretations that we in the health and safety profession deal with almost on a daily basis!
Foundations must be built on fact and as far as i am concerned opinion is good but fact and truth must prevail.
I take my leave and trust my point is considered amongst forum members.
Gary
For Emma
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Posted By Chris Packham
As a general point my dictionary defines concept as: "A thought or notion, especially one that is abstract or theoretical".
Thus I can suggest a concept of zero accidents, just as I can conceive a human settlement on the Moon or the human race living in peace with one another!
So that fact that someone has a concept of zero accidents is, in my view, perfectly reasonable, providing that they are not then claiming they have a foolproof way of achieving this, or even that it is actually in practical terms achievable.
Chris
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
Chris
A profound observation, but once again we are drifting into semantics. Theory is all well and good, but the reality is that espousing the virtues of theory is hardly useful when it comes to putting it into practice.
I accept that in order to achieve we must aim high but the principle remains that we need to be realistic as well. Can we achieve zero fatalities in industry? In theory yes. However, something in the region of 200 plus will be killed this year...
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Posted By Chris Packham
Raymond
When lecturing I often suggest (jokingly, of course) that there is only one hazard in a workplace - people! If you were to remove the people you might well be able to achieve zero accidents!
That is why the emphasis in health and safety must always be on controlling the process and not the person.
I also believe that if you aim low you will get an inferior result. However, if you aim too high you will fall so far short that you may well become discouraged - or others will see you as a failure. Its all about getting the balance right - as in most things in life!
Or am I being too philosophical?
Chris
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
Chris
For what it worth I think your second posting is spot on. Academics take the view that theory underpins everything we do. Forgetting that pragmatics also have a place in the real world - or am I being too philosophical? :)
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Posted By S T
I think there’s a confusion of different ‘terms’ here.
Setting ‘zero accidents’ as TARGET – make sense
Believing ‘zero accidents’ is ACHIEABLE – dreamland world
To those who are arguing whether the remarks quoted are correct or not….Please kil* the misery of others and post a sources of your information/arguments.
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Posted By Lilian McCartney
Hi Folks,
loads has been posted and various arguments for against etc.
Another view:
Where I work there are certain types of accident which i wouldn't want repeated (usually due to someone doing something in a way they shouldn't have) and then there are other accidents which cannot be prevented where an involuntary movement by a Service User results in them accidently whacking a Support Worker. Cause medical condition, prevention - none really as at some point we need to be close to the SU and there isn't an indication of when this will happen as its not challenging behaviour its medical.
So although we action the 'preventable' as such there are some we cannot predict or prevent.
I guess its down to your type of business as well.
Lilian
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Posted By MICHAEL T
Even the holy grail of quality (six sigma) is 3.4 per million.
What chance do we have?
Sorry about that I had a flashbash to a previous life.
Regards
Mike
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