Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Admin  
#1 Posted : 15 January 2009 15:26:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By William
It has been reported today that the horse tranquiliser ketamine's use is on the rise amongst people in the UK as a recreational drug. Current drug screening tests do not test for this drug, so it mat be a more attractive option to those who work in positions where random drug testing takes place.

Is it time for drug screening to also look for ketamine?
Admin  
#2 Posted : 15 January 2009 16:15:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Vicky Smith
Hi

Ketamine is used as date rape drug so the person would not be able to work until it has fully left the system as it make a person sleep and not be aware of there surroundings and appear very drunk.

So if you suspect that someone has been given Ketamine I would highly recommend that you inform the police

Vicky
Admin  
#3 Posted : 15 January 2009 16:41:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By graeme12345
if u tested the whole of the UK's construction workforce for recreational drugs you would probably shut it down overnight
Admin  
#4 Posted : 15 January 2009 16:46:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By A Campbell
Would be interested if there have been random drug screening carried out on sites?

I know in the offshore and rail industries it is a common thing carried out.
Admin  
#5 Posted : 15 January 2009 18:30:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By William
Vicky,

I think you misunderstood the question, in the industry which i work in (offshore) pre-employment and random drug screening are the norm, and i feel that given its growing popularity and use it should be treated the same as other recreational drugs and screened for.

i also think you have confused ketamine with a different drug which is used for the purpose you have described as ketamine shows up in the system for a few days after taken.

As for shutting down the construction industry due to drug taking, then if there is a problem now would be the best time when there is little work to take the issue of drug abuse more seriously in a bid to prevent accidents and improve the health and well being of employees.

I would say my main point is why should ketamine which is used in the manner as, cocaine, ecstasy and other drugs be offered immunity from drug tests as this will only encourage people who's workplaces have substance abuse screening to use it as it is not tested for.
Admin  
#6 Posted : 16 January 2009 08:30:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Mike Parks
William.

I agree with you that any drug or substance that may inhibit a worker should be tested for if may affect their work or life or that of others.

Since you hae a drug screening system in place already all you need to find out is if Ketamine can be added to your list of drugs being screened for. The employees do not have to know they are being screened for a any particular drug just that they are being tested.

I am curious about why you singled out Ketamine. Have you come across a lot of its use in your industry?

I do however dislike the term "recreational drug" as this implied acceptance of its use, and not the fact they are illegal. That is another debate I am sure not for this forum though.

Mike
Admin  
#7 Posted : 16 January 2009 11:44:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By William
Mike,

It was in response to a reporting in the media yesterday that ketamines use is growing in popularity as a recreational drug, it also is not a substance which is currently screened for and in theory may be an attractive option to persons who are currently screened for drugs.
Admin  
#8 Posted : 16 January 2009 14:46:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Arrow
Vicky Smith,

Ketamine isn't just a date rape drug it is taken as a "come down" drug after a night taking cocaine or ecstasy. In other words its a "downer" in order for the person taking it to sleep after taking "Upper" drugs. My friend had a lecture on it at his sports science course at uni which led to a discusion with me about drugs in the workplace.

Steroids are another major problem which isnt addressed in our line of work, they make people dizzy, nautious, aggressive and result in making bad judgements.

I see many lads walking round sites who are obviously "on" or have been "on" steroids. It doesnt take much spotting, theyre generally the huge muscular guys with no hair and veins coming out of their foreheads!
Admin  
#9 Posted : 16 January 2009 15:18:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By A Campbell
For those of you who enjoy a good read...
http://www.homeoffice.go.../rds/pdfs08/hosb1308.pdf

It was news to me that Ketamine is classed as a class c drug..on par with steroids!
Admin  
#10 Posted : 16 January 2009 16:16:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By William
also check http://www.talktofrank.c...OVuaO8k5gCFQoh3god9xldnA

I think it may be classified as low as C due to it being used an an anesthetic, when you see the effects of taking this drug then it is more dangerous in my view than cannabis which the government has considered upgrading again, so perhaps they will do the same with ketamine.
Admin  
#11 Posted : 22 January 2009 17:33:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By NickW
Ketamine is not such much a downer but rather a 'dis-associative' drug whereby the user can retreal into their halluncinations. Not an ideal state to be in for a tower crane operator etc.

Potential thread de-rail here but a thorny issue in my mind is that many 'hard' drugs such as cocaine, speed and heroin can be eliminated from the body between 24-72 hours after use. However fat-soluble drugs such as THC (the active ingredient in cannabis which is considered to be a softer less harmful drug) can remain detectable in the blood for up to a month after use. Therefore the drugs test-system appears to be skewed in favour of harder drug use and can even risk influencing drug use patterns. I have even heard anectdotal evidence of HM forces squaddies and other workers who are drug-tested, choosing harder drugs rather than softer drugs such as cannabis as they can flush them out of their system.

Its a complicated area thats for sure.
Admin  
#12 Posted : 22 January 2009 17:50:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By William
Nick,

I agree with you regarding the half life's of drugs, whats even more alarming is that the metabolites associated with THC have a detection cut of 50ng, wheres cocaine will have 200 or 300ng.

When you consider that there is absolutely no testing regime (which i am aware of )for Ketamine and the effects that it has, then the potential for misuse whilst is very alarming.

The more i think about the issue the more i think that we need to modernise our approach to drug misuse in the workplace and with new drug misuse habits being continually monitored and and policies updated.
Admin  
#13 Posted : 23 January 2009 15:16:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Robert B.
Ketamine is class C as it is relativley safe. In fact, it is used regularly as an anasthetic in paediatric medicine. It is NOT an illegal drug, but (as with many other legal drugs) it is illegal to possess without prescription.
Admin  
#14 Posted : 23 January 2009 15:39:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By safetyamateur
"I see many lads walking round sites who are obviously "on" or have been "on" steroids. It doesnt take much spotting, theyre generally the huge muscular guys with no hair and veins coming out of their foreheads!"

Or, as I like to call them, 'Security'

Admin  
#15 Posted : 23 January 2009 15:49:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By graeme12345
just a thought, say as an example a hired (not fully contracted)crane driver forgot to take their medicine (for whatever condition), became unconscious and caused a fatality.

What degree of control would a PC / employer be expected to have overt site, and would this degree go to ensuring that they are aware of the medical condition of all on a site and at least try to monitor any deviation from treatment which an employee is currently on?

Considering DVLA notification etc.

Admin  
#16 Posted : 23 January 2009 16:04:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By William
Robert,

drugs such as opites and benzodiazipans are tested for and if you do not have a reasonable excuse and evidence such a being prescribed them you will fail the drug screen and to be honest we should include steriods if their use can result in altering a persons personality such as making them more aggressive which would come under increasing the risk of violence a work. Also ketamine is not legal Legal for horses i think) its controlled there is a big difference as cannabis is a class c drug and its not legal.
Admin  
#17 Posted : 26 January 2009 11:00:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By A Campbell
Are not all drugs safe... providing they are used as prescribed by a medical practitioner..... if used by people for social benefits e.g. to be 'happy' then I would describe that as 'unsafe'... unless CITB or other good providers would run a course on it's safe use??

The only 'safe' way is to have a zero tolerance in the workplace... that includes residue and policy of random testing as in rail & offshore industry.

Just my humble 10 pence worth!
Admin  
#18 Posted : 26 January 2009 11:49:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By William
Also before anyone beats me to it, yes yes i know cannabis is now a class b drug as of today.
Admin  
#19 Posted : 26 January 2009 14:45:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By SC
"if u tested the whole of the UK's construction workforce for recreational drugs you would probably shut it down overnight"

Given the popularity of "recreational" drugs across society as a whole, that statement could be applied to most industries!

Offshore employees are tested at pre-employment medicals and medical refreshers, but random tests are few and far between. I think it would be naive to think that drug users don't just "clean up" when they know a medical is due.


Admin  
#20 Posted : 26 January 2009 14:55:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By A Campbell
I do agree what you say SC... I have in the past had to play an active part in random sampling for drugs testing in the offshore industry and you will always find at least 1 posative who is off home early pending laboratory results etc.

In addition it also plays an active part in accident/incident investigations with regards to samples being tested and is written as part of contract of employment.... especially for major American companies on a world wide basis.

May not be written as the cause of an incident... but has been noted as a probable factor.

IMOH the term recreational use is used too liberally these days as acceptable as having a 1/2 on the way home at the end of a busy week!
Admin  
#21 Posted : 26 January 2009 17:53:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By John Richards
Funnily enough, the ones in offices calling for the workforce to be tested are the one doing lines of coke......one "wag" stated that the fault for the collapse of the worlds banks could be laid firmly at the door of America....South America !
As for steroids, specify which ones....one presumes you mean anabolic steroids and not corticosteroids, commonly prescribed for control of inflammation. Corticosteroids have few side effects, neither do properly used anabolic steroids. Both however show on tests.

"Steroids are another major problem which isn't addressed in our line of work. They make people dizzy, nauseous, aggressive and result in making bad judgments"

So does premenstrual tension, and the menopause. Both not tested for !
So does coke (the white stuff), common with high-risers and admin staff.
Leave the workers alone, test the management. That's where all the cock-ups are made anyway !
Admin  
#22 Posted : 26 January 2009 18:05:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By William
Thats a good point regarding the management, but i didn't say it boss he above did, haha.

But back to the main question is it time to test for ketamine the horse tranquiliser?? or do we say nneeeiigghhh chance? (bad joke i know, couldn't resist).
Users browsing this topic
Guest (2)
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.