Posted By JWG Is there a requirement, for due diligence reasons, to insist that sub-contractors have received sufficient asbestos training. Is it covered in the CSCS training? Many thanks...

Posted By Chris L Regulation 10 of the Control of Asbestos Regulations (CAR2006) sets out requirements for suitable awareness training of any personnel who may encounter asbestos during their work. From what I have heard, the CSCS element would not generally be sufficient. The easiest way to find a suitable trainer would be to find an organisation registered by UKATA, but training can be given by anyone competent to do so.

Posted By Robert K Lewis The general awareness training does not necessarillty require a UKATA member - you do need to monitor who is training though and the general standard of the tuition. Bob

Posted By Chris L A TBT may indeed be adequate - The requirement we have in place for our contractors is that it is suitable & sufficient. Someone who comes in to cut the grass doesn't need the same level of awareness as a general building contractor. Unfortunately more than one building contractor has told me that they don't need any asbestos awareness training, as they never encounter it due to it all being removed before they begin works. Hmmmm.......

Posted By Raymond Rapp JWG, another very good thread. It appears from the CAR 2006 (4)(a) that the employer (and main contractors) have an explicit duty to ensure that others such as subbies are suitably trained in asbestos awareness when working for them as they would if they were employees. Unless I have misread the regulation below - I thought the authorities were supposed to write in plain English! (4) Where a duty is placed by these Regulations on an employer in respect of his employees, he shall, so far as is reasonably practicable, be under a like duty in respect of any other person, whether at work or not, who may be affected by the work activity carried out by the employer except that the duties of the employer— (a)under regulation 10 (information, instruction and training) shall not extend to persons who are not his employees unless those persons are on the premises where the work is being carried out; and...

Posted By graeme12345 JWG, how did you ensure that your contractor was competent to carry out the work in the first place? you should insist if your contractor employs others to carry out work for them they should apply the same to any others they employ. Put that in writing and file. If you employ others to work for you, you are liable if something goes wrong, how would you prove everything is in order on your site when an accident / incident has occurred?

Posted By Robert K Lewis Malcolm I think your site team need a little more than this. One should actively request sight of the training certificate or presume that persons are not trained. I would be a little uneasy about the statement concernimng visual survey. You are effectively admitting to an inadequate assessment re asbestos in the structure. I applaud the underlying idea to emphasise to contractors/operatives just where things are known to exist. Remember if there is no analysis then crocidolite has to be assumed for any suspect material. Bob

Posted By Ron Hunter Malcolm, some good words in your text ( I particularly like the "appearing disnterested" bit!) however there is no real point (and an attendant risk) in having a contractor turn up to work on areas where only a Type 1 Survey has been conducted. Time is money, and this could invite the contractor to take an incorrect approach. If your Type 1 'presumed' the materials were ACM, then this should be confirmed (or refuted) by sample and analysis before the contractor turns up so that the correct approach to the work can be taken. The limitations of any Asbestos Register should always be highlighted on the front page, particularly where hitherto unexplored areas (ducts,cavities,voids etc.) not covered by a Type 2 Survey could be disturbed.

Posted By Dave Wilson PS look on the HSE notices data base to see the number of IN flying around for insufficient training, this is part of the HSE FIT 3 campaign

Posted By Dave Wilson Monday 19 January 2009 14:32 Health and Safety Executive (West Midlands) HSE warns: exposing untrained workers to asbestos will be penalised (following prosecution of West Midlands company) The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) is warning that firms exposing workers to asbestos would be penalised. It added that electrical contracting companies and other building and refurbishment trades must provide suitable asbestos awareness training to employees or face prosecution. This move follows the HSE prosecution of Scriven Electrical Contractors Ltd of Cornwallis Road, West Bromwich for failing to ensure that adequate information, instruction and training was given to its employees. The court heard that an electrician employed by Scriven installed three heat detectors and associated cabling in a commercial sized kitchen and boiler room of premises in Barclay Road, Smethwick. Although the ceiling tiles contained 5-50% brown asbestos no asbestos awareness training was given by his employer prior to commencement of the work, despite a legal requirement. Scriven Electrical Contractors Ltd was, on 19 January, 2009, under the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974, fined £3,000 and ordered to pay £2,757 in costs, by West Bromwich Magistrates for breaching Regulation 10(1)(a) of the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2006. Speaking after the case, HSE inspector John Healy said: "Scrivens should have known of the dangers and the legal requirement to give sufficient training to protect employees from exposure to asbestos because 98% of their work involves the risk of encountering asbestos. "Those responsible for employees ordinarily have a legal duty to protect their health and safety but, in the case of asbestos those involved in building or refurbishment must know that any disturbance of such a dangerous material should only be completed by trained workers." Electricians, plasterers, plumbers and carpenters are all at risk of exposure to asbestos in buildings erected or refurbished before the year 2000 and across the whole of the West Midlands Region one person dies a painful death every three days from mesothelioma and these deaths are almost exclusively people who have previously been exposed to asbestos. The number of asbestos-related workplace deaths exceeds the figure of deaths in road accidents but many workers, particularly tradesmen, think that they are not personally at risk of exposure to asbestos or the diseases it can cause. They think that since asbestos was banned many years ago, the problem has been dealt with and therefore it is not relevant to them. The reality is very different. Exposure to asbestos is the biggest single cause of work-related deaths, with around 4,000 people a year dying from asbestos-related disease. The overall number of deaths is rising because a large number of workers who have already been exposed to asbestos dust around 40 years ago will go on to develop mesothelioma, a terminal cancer or other asbestos related diseases. Today asbestos still presents a real and relevant risk to plumbers, joiners, electricians and many other maintenance workers as it may be present in any building constructed or refurbished before the year 2000. It is estimated that around 500,000 non-domestic buildings could contain asbestos and these buildings all need repair and maintenance work from time to time but when the asbestos fibres are disturbed, for example by drilling or cutting, they are likely to be inhaled as a deadly dust. Notes to Editors The prosecution was brought under: Regulation 10(1)(a) of the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2006 which states that: "Every employer shall ensure that adequate information, instruction and training is given to those of his employees- (a) who are or who are liable to be exposed to asbestos, or who supervise such employees, so that they are aware of- (i) the properties of asbestos and its effects on health, including its interaction with smoking, (ii) the types of products or materials likely to contain asbestos, (iii) the operations which could result in asbestos exposure and the importance of preventive controls to minimise exposure, (iv) safe work practices, control measures, and protective equipment, (v) the purpose, choice, limitations, proper use and maintenance of respiratory protective equipment, (vi) emergency procedures, (vii) hygiene requirements, (viii) decontamination procedures, (ix) waste handling procedures, (x) medical examination requirements, and (xi) the control limit and the need for air monitoring, in order to safeguard themselves and other employees." Can all of this LEGAL REQUIREMENT be done as a TBT - IMHO NO!