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Posted By Derek Williams
Hi,
Can anyone tell me why some building sites are banning Rigger boots.
Regards,
Derek.
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Posted By holmezy
Derek,
I've heard 2 reasons;
a)they don't offer high degree of ankle support
b) they come of easily when wearer treads in mud and he "steps" out of them.
Can't confirm or deny though.....
Holmezy
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Posted By PMW
I have not come across a contractor that has banned them 'yet', but I do know of some contractors who no longer supply them as PPE, and opt for usual lace up boot style instead. When I asked why, the reason given was that the rigger boot is too rigid and should the individual fall it does not bend with the ankle and can cause a more severe injury. You can make your mind up for yourself.
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
Ankle support from lace up safety boots is yet another H&S myth. My Scarpa mountain boots do provide plenty of ankle support, however there is absolutely no way that I experience any adequate ankle support from my lace up safety boots.
If I am wrong where is the research to prove that this hypothesis works and why are there not British or EU standards for the level of ankle support in safety boots?
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Posted By Southerner
Network rail banned the use of rigor boots along time ago.
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
When I started my nurse training there where many myths surrounding the treatment and management of pressure sores, however we were soon taught that there was absolutely no place for any form of treatment or care which could not be substantiated with an hard research evidence.
In safety, I feel that we are currently surrounded by many myths such as this one which we as a profession must challenge.
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Posted By Andy Petrie
It's all about the ankle support. Most safety boots, if properly laced, do provide adequate ankle support for most tasks.
Granted, if I was Fell Walking it would probably be inadequate due to the much more extreme nature of the activity.
As always, risk assessment required.
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Posted By MickN
Does the paperwork that comes with the boots give any information as to the nature of the support provided? In other words, is there any document produced by the manufacturers of safety boots that refers to ankle support or are we simply extrapolating from the fact that the boot laces up to the ankle?
In the absence of documentation that the manufacturer will stand behind, the whole subject is without value.
Now, what about welding and contact lenses...
Mick
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
Sorry they simply don't. The sides covering the ankles on most safety boot are constructed out soft leather or other materials, they are simply not designed to provide any lateral support.
If they do provide any support, where is the evidence?
This precisely the type of issue that we were trained to challenge as nurses over twenty five years ago.
Without underpinning research this simply remains a hypothesis or worse a myth which could result in further injury.
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Posted By Colin Reeves
"as always, a risk assessment is required".
However, risk assessments are only as good as the facts which support the assessment. It seems, from this thread and the last one, that facts on ankle support or not are just not available - all seems to be based on supposition??
Are assessments based on scanty information worth the paper they are written on? I suspect not. Therefore the original question has yet to be fully answered.
Colin
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Posted By Bob Youel
its easier to ban than to manage hence the block banning of various things & / or the block support of others e.g. wearing eye protection
additionally cost can come into it as it is presumed that Rigger are more expensive so ban them & we [ the eployer] pay less
ignorance is another reason to ban/support anything without sound logic behind it
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Posted By Andy Petrie
OK, how's this, it is my personal opinion that the boots I have offer more ankle support than the loafers I wear in the office.
Whether that is enough to prevent an ankle injury I very much doubt, but they do help steady my feet when out on site, particularly when walking on ballasted railway track, and by doing so reduce the likelihood of me falling over in the in the first place, hence reducing the risk.
I would therefore reccomend wearing them over shoes or rigger boots, particularly when on a railway site.
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
At one stage cotton wool was for hearing protection, however based upon current knowledge we would never dream of recommending this now because know through research that the quality of attenuation is poor.
If there is a significant gap in our professional knowledge then we should be declaring this rather than substituting this with personal opinion, as we clearly have a duty to undertake this under Code Point 3 of our Professional Code of Conduct.
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Posted By phalda
I am sure this question could be cleared up via an EMAS rep... but with regard to support...any support supplied via a lace up boot would only be useful if that boot was laced up properly ( many on site only lace up enough to keep boot on) so now ..IF this is the case for using lace up rather than rigger boots.. Then we now will have to instruct people how to tie their laces...
You laugh... but some do need reminding to do so..
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Posted By Neil R
Rigger boots have been banned on our sites for a few years. The reason:
They are not designed for construction work and construction sites for example walking on differing terrains, loose stones etc. They provide little or no support to the ankle and heel, They have no laces so they are not fitted to the foot. They have no steel midsole so are not rigid underneath and due to the opening at the top they allow substances such as cement and concrete into the shoe far to easily.
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Posted By Neil R
Ok Aaron, so you can get them with steel mid-soles, still doesn't solve any of the other issues though does it.
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Posted By NSO
Surely they're just the next step up from a wellie. A little warmer and that's about it.
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Posted By Kelly Laura
Hi Derek,
Rigger boots are most likely being banned on some construction sites as they afford little in the way of ankle protection on uneven ground - staff are still at risk of sprained ankles, whereas wearing lace up boots is a much better option.
Hope that helps!
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Posted By William
Most offshore platforms have banned them mainly because lace up boots reduce the risk of sprained ankles and as someone who uses boots, i prefer lace up ones as they are much more comfortable and provide better protection.
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
Lace-up safety boots have never been designed to provide lateral ankle protection in order to reduce the risk of soft tissue injury and if they were the boot would be of a more rigid construction and therefore they would not be suitable for driving or a lot of other work activities.
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Posted By Gerry Marchant
We use the common sense risk assessment approach to the wearing of Riggers....not if your doing concreteing works, i.e. pouring of footings and the other is tarmac works.
Some of our Site Managers prefer to wear riggers in the early stages of a project when we are doing the groundworks where it is a muddy site, and then go onto more conventional safety footwear when the building work is further progressed.
I don't know of anyone who has suffered ankle or lower leg injury due to wearing them
Again is this some of the larger construction organisations who are members of the 'elite group' trying to impose rules on the others!!
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Posted By steven n
I'd like to see some statistics on ankle injuries while wearing rigger boots, I personally after 15 yrs in costruction have never heard of a single incident of this nature.
Does anyone know of any actual incidents and not just hearsay?
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Posted By MickN
Derek,
To answer your question, it's ignorance really (assuming use of the ankle support excuse). There's no reason to ban rigger boots.
I know plenty of guys who just simply like, maybe even love, their rigger boots. One guy even went to the trouble of glue-ing his boots back together after they started to fall apart. He wouldn't buy new ones, just repaired with more glue any time they started to go.
You might find this strange but a construction site can be a place where style and selfconsciousness is a real issue. Rigger boots are a part of that. It could be that I'm off on a tangent now but have you ever noticed that certain people on site will wear the darkened safety glasses up until darkness? It becomes obvious that it's a vanity thing, they prefer how they look in the "sunglasses".
All of which is a long way of saying that rigger boots are expensive and a construction site fashion statement. If you find that offensive then you might find a way to ban them but it ain't logical.
IMHO
Mick
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Posted By Jim Ransley
Hi, on a slightly different tangent on the banning of rigger boot's,a good arguement for them is the speed in which they can be removed if hot metal or corrosive cement/liquid goes in them.Takes awhile to undo laces,been there and suffered that one with molten metal from welding,never use lace ups now
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Posted By Ben Keen
Interesting last point about ease of removal. I visted a fabrication plant before Christmas where riggers were banned anywhere near hot work because of the risk (yes, there was a risk assessment) of hot material falling into the boot. More to the point this was the assessment and choice of the workforce based on their experience.
Whether your lace up boots fit well enough to prevent this risk, or provide ankle support, will depend on the spec. I have a pair of Dickies boots which provide superb ankle support and you wouldn't get a fag paper down them never mind a hot rivet! You get what you pay for.
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Posted By Kevin Ray
I'm intrigued to see the very different opinions on these type of boots and would like to throw my own spanner in the works.
I was told once when asking why are they called 'Rigger Boots' during a telecoms mast tower climb when I found them absolutely useless for 'Rigging' in the tower climbing sense (my own personal experiance not a hard fact). It was at this point I was told that I shouldn't be using them for the type of work being carried out and that their original design was for ease of removal for 'Off Shore' riggers should they fall in the water. The argument was put to me 'Have you ever tried to swim in steel cap boots? The tendency is you don't you just sink' Therefore the removal of the boots should be as easy as possible so they don't drown. It's always sounded plausible to myself as I know first hand how easy it is to slip a foot out of the boot regardless of how well they fit. Personally I wear lace up boots.
I know this does not answer the original question to the thread but maybe somebody has been told the same as myself therefore 'Banned' them before carrying out a RA for the practical use(Typical).
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith
If lateral ankle support is a critical aspect lace-up safety boot, then we need some sort of British or European Standard for this and a scheme to ensure that these boot are correctly fitted just as we do for corrective lenses.
The level of lateral support potentially varies greatly between the manufacture of different boots, how they fit individuals and the age of the boot, however does good lateral support actually reduce the incidence of soft tissue injury and where is the research which supports this hypothesis?
I am aware of the Shanks Waste Management report into ankle injuries; however I have not seen the research paper or if this has been subject to peer review.
The bottom line is that based upon current knowledge, under Code Point 3 of the IOSH Code of Conduct, I feel that we should no longer be recommending lace-up ankle boots as a definitive means of protecting ankles from soft tissue injury, but feel we should be pressing for proper research into this very issue.
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
I only wonder why so many HSE construction inspectors wear riggers if they are as bad as some people seem to be saying?
Bob
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Posted By Derek Williams
Hi all,
Thank you all for your input, the outcome of all this is, because our fitters visit many building sites all be it only for an hour or so, we have issued instructions that if they wish to continue wearing riggers on site they must have a second pair of lace up safety boots on the vehicle, as most of you say, a ban without any real evidence to back it up.
Regards,
Derek.
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