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Posted By kaggs
Hopefully someone can answer this one:
We have a bridge that is about to be painted by a painting contractor that fallls within F10. Existing paint is to be stripped (scaffolding designed and erected by PC via sub-cont) and repainted by principal contractor.
Would the Principal Contractor be classed as a Designer for the whole project? Or would they be one of the Designers as they have helped to design the scaffolding (possibly via another sub-contractor that designs scaffolding)?
Or, would they not be classed as a Designer at all?
Thanks in advance.
Regards
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Posted By Melanie Fellows
In my opinion, they wouldn't be classed as a designer at all.
Mel
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Posted By Crim
Any person who contributes to any part of a design is a designer under CDM. However only for that part of the design.
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Posted By kaggs
Thanks for the quick reply Mel.
What is throwing me here is that under reg 2 para 116 of the ACOP says;
Who are Designers?
(e) contractors carrying out design work as part of their contribution to a project such as an engineering contractor providing design, procurement and construction managements services.
(f) temporary works engineers, including those designing temporary works structures, such as formwork, falsework, facade retention schemes, scaffolding and sheet piling.
Does that not make them a designer? Or would that be the company that specs the paintwork?
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Posted By Melanie Fellows
The scaffolding contractor would be classed as the designer.
Mel
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Posted By kaggs
But the scaffolding contractor is under the control of the PC who did the design.
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Posted By Bob Youel
unless the PC is competent to design scaffold he should leave well alone then the scaffod company would be the designer
If the PC has taken it upon themselves to undertake proper design work then they could be called the designer remembering its only in a court where the legal defination will be determined!
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Posted By Melanie Fellows
The PC designed the scaffolding? - Surely not?
I would suggest that the PC requested a scaffold to be designed (by the scaffolding company) to access whichever parts of the bridge needed accessing.
And in which case the scaffolding company is the designer (albeit employed by the PC).
Mel
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Kaggs, is your concern perhaps more about a requirement to identify a Designer "for the whole Project"?
The short answer is that in most instances there is no such person. For example:
The person who specified the paint is a designer.
Anyone who makes any stipulation about how or when the job is to be done MIGHT be deemed to be participating in design (it depends!)
Persons designing scaffold are Designers.
In my own humble opinion, the F10 (Schedule 1 pt14 in the ACoP) does not mean that there is an absolute requirement for all and any "designers" to be identified - particularly where the Project is not about the build or refurb. of a significant structure For many Projects, it is useful to identify specific designers in the pre-construction information (M&E, structural engineers, architects, etc) but this is not always relevant.
In short - do not be concerned about leaving this section of the F10 blank.
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Posted By kaggs
Thanks for the advice everyone - got enough to get on with it.
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