Posted By May Warley
Hi all,

We have a skip for metals in our yard and every now and then we would call a company in to empty it. I wrote to them one day requesting for the usual H&S documents including a documented risk assessment on the activity carried out at our site.
I received the relevant insurance documents and a letter saying that in his 32 years business in servicing skips, he has never had to supply a risk assessment and said there are too many things outside his control on our site to make a meaningful statement.

Need your opinions on this issue, please.

Thanks
May

Posted By Pete48
Ask him to come around and with his help do a joint assessment specific to your yard. Keep it simple.
Or you could go down the route of being horrified that such a situation exists, ask yourself how and why your company has appointed a contractor with this approach to H&S and find another one who shows a modern approach. However, you don't say what size this company is and not being able to produce a piece of paper doesn't mean that they are unaware of the risk or fail to control adequately.
You choose.
No doubt someone else will comment about the environmental or disposal management concerns that may also need a check given your discovery of their approach to safety management.

Posted By Safe System
Thats correct - check HSE guidelines under 5 steps to risk assessment. BUT. If anyone reading this who employ less than 5 people and think that it will save them work ... JUST RECORD IT ANYWAY. IT can be simple AND it will help prevent injury and save lives.

Posted By Crim
May, you need to carry out a risk assessment regarding the skip company on your premises, risks to your employees, to the skip driver etc.

The skip company is being negligent in not having their own. (I suggest they do have more than 5 employees).

Questions:

Have you competence checked the skip company, if not why not? Any competence check would require examples of previous risk assessments.

How does anyone prove they have done a risk assessment unless there is written evidence? Just a note in the diary will do but surely there will be some "Main Findings" from the delivery and use of a skip?

Posted By SteveD-M
Just to clarify matters a little (or muddy them!)

Everyone requires a risk assessment whether that be verbal or written. If you have more than 5 employees you need to record it.


So if he has told his guys about the hazards or has extensive experience in the field then...?

How he has demonstrated compliance would be in question. The employer shall have a duty to ensure the safety and health or workers in every aspect related of their work.

Posted By John A Wright
May,

The risk assessment needs to be conducted by you and the skip man.

One of the main hazards I would think is workplace traffic and hazards to pedestrians etc etc which will be your responsibility or one of your site managers.

John

Posted By May Warley
I will invite him to come over to do the risk assessment together with me, which I think he would come up with an excuse not to turn up, but at least I try.

Thanks
May

Posted By Phil Rose
You're right Steve, lets be clear about what the law requires. MHSW R3(1) requires that EVERY employer should carry out risk assessments. Under MHSW R3(6)a, those employers that employ 5 or more employees must then also record the SIGNIFICANT findings.

However, we all know that if we have gone to the trouble of carrying out the risk assessment, that we might as well record it for any number of reasons.

I don't think the skip operator is speaking 'tosh' but I would have thought that he would have a generic assessment in place. In fairness I am not sure if it reasonable to expect him to have a site specific assessment. I am just thinking of I were the skip operator whether I would carry out an assessment for each and every site. I doubt it! I would be surprised if you went to another skip company if they would give you a site specific assessment. Why not invite him over for a cuppa and help him put together a generic assessment.

Posted By Philip McAleenan
May,

Risk assessment is a process carried out continuously to determine whether the work activity requires further controls in respect of any hazards that may be present. The legal requirement is that any significant findings be recorded. Given that any such findings are significant they need to be dealt with before the activity proceeds and it follows that once satisfactorily dealt with there will be no significant findings, thus no further need for a record.

Controls for routinely conducted work activities that are fundamentally understood by anyone competent in that activity do not necessarily need to be written down. The competent driver will enter your premises and assess the situation as he proceeds and no doubt cease if he comes across any hazard for which he isn’t prepared. If you are aware of any hazards in your workplace that he hasn’t come across before, i.e. any new hazards, let him know so that he may take appropriate action on his next visit; though no doubt you will l already have addressed these and remedied the situation so that he is not put at risk.

Given that he has 32 years experience in his business, I am sure you will accept that he is competent to continue to service the skips at your premises. Health and safety is not driven by paperwork, but by competent practice. Seek essential paper work, such as evidence of his current insurance status, but not unnecessary stuff. The rational for a written risk assessment for his activities on your site implies that he must have hundreds, if not more written risk assessments for all the sites that he visits each year, and that is to say the least, impracticable.

Regards, Philip

Posted By John Richards
Is this a "cash-and-no-questions-asked" scrap metal recovery scheme ?

Posted By May Warley
Hi all,

Being new on H&S, I still have a lot to learn. Thanks for your comments and I'll take them on board. Feel like an idiot now but life still goes on.

Best regards
May

Posted By SteveD-M
May
Please don't take an criticism as a result of this issue. You knew to ask the question.

Don't take too much heed of some rather right wing approaches. Remember there needs to be a balanced approach.

Well done for identifying this and keep up the good work.

Have a nice day.