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Posted By Raknruin
Hi, this is my first post so forgive me any silly errors. I work at a well known sausage manufactorer and I am a safety rep for the union.
The staff have always had access to latex gloves to use when working with the meat but they are seriously thinking of taking them off us. I am going to assist with a risk assessment but in my eyes and the staff's eyes they are taking ppe off us which is illegal. The reason they are doing this is because of customer complaints with regards to blue plastic (colour of plastic on site). The meat can be anywhere between -2 c and +5 c in temperature. Thin as the gloves are they do provide some protection against the cold and wet. What would everyone do in my circumstance and how would they fight it. My colleagues are working with cold, wet raw meat all day long and there is a lot of strong feeling.
Apologies if this is basic but I would be very grateful for any help/advice.
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Posted By jervis
Hello Raknruim this discussion forum is about asking questions so nothing basic here.
I dont now much about food handling but i would of thought the wearing of gloves when handling food would necessary! The use of latex gloves has been banned in my work place [NHS] due to people being allergic to latex may be worth looking into. Not sure if you have been on the HSE website always useful also your UNION website on health and safety may be able to help good luck.
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Posted By Brando
If they have performed a risk assessment and identified the need for gloves then they can't just take them away from you without offering a replacement or alternative method of work which does not require the PPE.
Quote the PPE regs at them ( if you need to throw legal jargon around ).
Conduct your own risk assessment and identify the need for gloves ( with supporting reasons of course ).
Might be worth phoning a supplier of gloves and asking what they would recommend for this task ( keeping in mind they might quote the most expensive glove first ).
Any ideas what other meat plants issue?
Were these gloves issued for safety or for hygiene reasons ( contamination of the product )?
Brando
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Posted By David Bannister
I work with a meat producer and we have not assessed a need for hand PPE. We do however ensure that break periods are observed away from the cold areas and that hot drinks are available. We also have a stringent hygiene regime in place that includes after work moisturisers, skin surveillance and information on dermatitis etc.
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Posted By Merv Newman
Plastic gloves are required to prevent direct skin-to-meat contact which could lead to contamination in either or both directions.
Blue is a standard in food handling, e.g. plasters on cuts, so that, if lost, it shows up in contrast to food ingredients. Few of which are blue. Except custard in some circumstances.
There is nothing in my opinion to prevent warm gloves from being worn under the plastic gloves.
I won't go the egg-sucking route on the care and feeding of gloves.
Merv
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Not forgetting Blue String Pudding Merv, that much loved staple of the Clangers.
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Posted By Merv Newman
Dropped one in the soup there didn't I ?
Merv
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Posted By Chris Packham
Firstly may I comment on the posting regarding latex and allergy. In principle there is actually nothing wrong with natural rubber latex gloves, providing these are of the unpowdered, low free protein type. The evidence is that the so-called "latex allergy epidemic" was restricted to the use of cheap, powedered, high free protein gloves. The HSE's official policy is not that latex should be banned, but that a risk assessment is needed and where it can be shown that latex is the preferred glove then this is perfectly acceptable. Unfortunately, experience shows that some HSE inspectors have misinterpreted their own guidance.
There are NHS Trusts who have gone "latex free" who never had problems before but are now experiencing significant levels of skin allergies to the alternatives in use, mainly nitrile, but also vinyl.
Secondly, in the food industry the thin, single-use gloves are primarily provided to protect the product from the contamination by the wearer. However, keep in mind that it is perfectly possible for the glove to act as a carrier of micro-organisms and thus cross-contaminate.
Wearing of occlusive gloves is, for the skin, the equivalent of wet work. If such gloves have to be worn for any length of time or frequently, then:
a) separate cotton liners should be worn underneath the gloves to prevent excessive hyperhydration of the skin, and
b) skin health surveillance will be mandatory to comply with COSHH and MS24.
Whether wearing such gloves is necessary in such circumstances as has been described is open to debate. High standards of personal hygiene may be equally, if not more, successful in preventing contamination. The decision will depend upon the individual circumstances and the consequent risk assessment.
Chris
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Posted By Merv Newman
Chris,
thanks for your very informative reply. However I cannot see much "skin surveillance" nor insistence on high standards of personal hygiene in the real world. Ideally, yes you are correct. But have you actually visited your local abattoir ?
Clock-on at 6am. Put on the kit (wellies, apron, rubber gloves, a face mask. (maybe(!)) Knock off a hundred or so pigs. Pass them off to your mate who guts them and the next bloke who puts the chain-saw down the spine.
Then it's time for a fag and a coffee. Back to the salt mines until early lunch (ham sandwiches and a bottle of rouge)
And so-on till 1 or 2 pm. Back to the wife and kids and a good sleep.
Not a great deal of time allowed or available for personal hygiene.
We are fortunate in that our kitchen knives are sharpened once a month by one of our neighbors, retired "Chef d'Abattoir"
Smooooth.
Have to split a bottle though.
Merv
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Posted By Chris Packham
Merv
You are probably correct about many abbattoirs. However, here in the U.K. the HSE are getting very keen on skin health surveillance. I have had several companies who have approached us on this topic specifically due to the pressure from the HSE. Environmental Health Officers don't seem to have reached the same stage yet.
If you look at COSHH and more specifically at MS24 (Medical aspects of occupational skin disease) you will see that there is a clearly stated legal requirement here. That it is largely ignored doesn;t surprise me. Two weeks ago I did a preliminary audit of an engineering company and they didn't have a single valid risk assessment for COSHH - and how long has that regulation been around.
Incidentally, I sampled about 50 of the safety data sheets they had and only one was correct in all respects!
I think I agree - will go and look for the corkscrew shortly.
Chris
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Posted By Juan Carlos Arias
This type of gloves in the food industry are given primarily for food hygiene reasons, your employer will be entitle to withdraw the issuing of these gloves if he considers they are not necessary based on a well put together risk assessment. Providing food hygiene requirements are being followed by the employees i.e. adequate hand washing, it could be even be a more hygienic manner to handle food than when wearing gloves, which in many instances give a false sense of security to the operators in terms of hygiene.
Obviously from your post, you are having a number of complaints due to foreign bodies. Gloves could become a nightmare for the food industry when people don't follow basic rules and everywhere you turn, you find a used pair of gloves (I could probably believe this is the case there?). If your colleagues would rather work with the gloves, you should try and re-educate people on the correct use of gloves. Of Course this will have to come from the management team too. (do you have a big number of agency staff?)
You could also suggest purchasing metal detectable ones. I'm sure you have metal detectors at the end of the packing lines. a bit more expensive but your employer might be prepared to pay for them.
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Posted By andymak
Possibly a silly question, but has anyone actually asked if they are going to withdraw the gloves and why?
Maybe they are going over to a different kind chainmail perhaps!
If unhappy with any answers that come back quote PPE regs at them and seek further union involvement.
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